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Steve Hook Inner circle Raleigh, NC, USA 1266 Posts |
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On 2006-05-14 20:24, teevtee wrote: Man, you have an opinion on everything, yeah? You even start your post with "I don't know about any other or new version..." Well, maybe this is one of those times you don't need to post anything! In this case, I just mentioned that, "It would have the work on the <original> version..." and "I'm...waiting for this version." No mention of "improved", and it certainly won't be "mucked up". It would be great if you'd please digest the words before coming up with an irrelevant lecture. The issues are originality and creativity. Wait and see, TVT. All will be revealed. This summer.
Like Bonnie Raitt said, "I miss Little Feat more than I miss being 8 years old." Thanks for the concerts + recordings, Lowell, Richie, and Paul!
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teevtee Special user 963 Posts |
Opinions yes, lectures no.
Ease off on the negativity my friend. Discussions are all about opinions. Your opinion is that you are delaying a purchase until summer, my opinion is that this is quite good so there is no need to wait. This summer I will offer my opinion on the new version... no harm no foul. |
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sirbrad Inner circle PA 2096 Posts |
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On 2006-05-12 10:21, cfrancis wrote: Potenial client: "Hey your shoe is untied, c'mon now you want me to hire you as an alleged professional yet you can't even maintain the image of a professional?" Magician: "Huh? Oh...oops! Sorry about that, let me take care of that for you. Just a shake, snap, kick, and a twist..." Client: "You're hired!" I like it.
The great trouble with magicians is the fact that they believe when they have bought a certain trick or piece of apparatus, and know the method or procedure, that they are full-fledged mystifiers. -- Harry Houdini
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Steve Hook Inner circle Raleigh, NC, USA 1266 Posts |
To everyone except teevtee (who keeps misinterpreting my posts):
Public service announcement: If you haven't already bought this routine, you may want to wait to see if the creator of this trick releases his official, original version of this concept this summer. That's it. Over and out.
Like Bonnie Raitt said, "I miss Little Feat more than I miss being 8 years old." Thanks for the concerts + recordings, Lowell, Richie, and Paul!
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sirbrad Inner circle PA 2096 Posts |
A friend of mine was over tonight who is a layman, and big fan of my magic. Oddly enough he asked me if I had seen this effect on the special. Little did he know I seen it about 500 times now via a self-playing video alone. What he said was a little disturbing..."That is just all editing, they untie it and tie it back up by hand, but edit it out. That is why he shakes his leg so fast."
Yes I know, I wanted to burst out laughing, and in anger all at the same time. I knew the method even before seeing a free demo somewhere with it's explanation, but I do not make or use effects I did not buy, as I actually have strong ethics when it comes to supporting magic and it's creators. So I did not have my own gimmick made to prove him wrong. So now I am actually tempted to buy it just to shut him up. *** those laymen.... I must say it was very hard biting my tongue that time. I like the effect overall due to the fact that it can be performed pretty easily anytime, and anywhere. So I am sure I would get some mileage out of it. Sure a lot of people tell you when your shoe is untied, but don't forget that they usually do not stick around to watch you tie it. They assume you have already been embarrassed enough, and begin to start walking away. So that is when you will need to find the proper patter to redirect their attention back where it belongs, your shoe. "Oh thanks a lot...Hey you know one cool way to take care of that?" "I pulled my back muscle the other day, so I cannot bend over for awhile....Oh well let's try this...etc." After watching Criss, and others, many simply pass off ALL TV magic as some type of editing. This is not good for the working pros such as myself, those who need to put bread on the table with an income derived entirely from magic. These shows are great for people like Criss Angel, because he no longer has to rely on doing gigs week to week to make it in the real world. He can simply stop doing magic now, and take it real easy on camera. With a camera crew and about 100 stooges, anyone in the world can be a magician...and for about $3 million dollars. No wonder so many magicians are selling out, the pay is MUCH better. My integrity remains intact, and always will.
The great trouble with magicians is the fact that they believe when they have bought a certain trick or piece of apparatus, and know the method or procedure, that they are full-fledged mystifiers. -- Harry Houdini
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MopKrayz Elite user 423 Posts |
I don't think that Criss Angel can afford to stop doing live magic. He does not make any big time income from the TV specials alone. he's just paving the way before taking his live show to a worldwide tour...
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Steve Hook Inner circle Raleigh, NC, USA 1266 Posts |
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On 2006-05-17 04:10, sirbrad wrote: Brad: It sounds like you're making this way too hard on yourself. All one has to do is remind the layman that there were no camera tricks used. Sometimes that would only apply to a specific trick since Blaine and Angel both did fudge with time and space. But it could apply to specific tricks, such as the shoelace. Just tell your layman that. There's never any need to explain the method, you just state that there was no camera trick. If you know that there was a disclaimer at the beginning of the show (ala all of Copperfield's shows or the recent Keith Barry show), then you can remind them of that. If the layman dismisses the disclaimer, well, you don't have much to talk about and can switch the subject to LeBron James. (You can't save the world from itself!) So relax and have fun. It's just a magic trick!
Like Bonnie Raitt said, "I miss Little Feat more than I miss being 8 years old." Thanks for the concerts + recordings, Lowell, Richie, and Paul!
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teevtee Special user 963 Posts |
Well I think Brad is correct that this trick is not a money maker to be performed in a traditional routine, it is however a strong effect that if handled right will get a GREAT reaction.
Look at the guy who say the DB special. He thought the trick was so impressive that he assumed it was editing. That alone should put to rest any thoughts than it is too obvious or that laymen will know the method. |
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sirbrad Inner circle PA 2096 Posts |
Disclaimers hold little value to most, especially laymen. At what point are we all supposed to start believing what a magician says is true? Or when do we stop believing what is being said is true? We know he is lying when it comes to his "alleged feats of supernatural ability," yet we are quick to believe he is telling the truth about whether or not he uses camera tricks/editing. Magicians have been selling this hype, and auto-suggestive mentality (lies) ever since TV was invented.
I remember old specials claiming they would not cut away, yet cut away almost immediately afterward with a little misdirection thrown in that would most likely divert any layman's attention. One example of Criss Angel's convenient cut away was during his "card through window" on the bus. I thought wow, this is going to be good. Until they cut-away back to the bus, and then the "signed" card had been put in place by whoever, or whatever. Had he been able to pull that off in one take I would have been impressed, but under the circumstances that was not possible. You honestly believe that Criss can jump into a puddle and disappear and appear on top of a building? If he could do even one of those tricks separately in front of me live, I would fall down to my knees and begin worshiping my new magic God. However if people are actually believing everything he says or does, they are delusional indeed. But then he is also doing his job very well as an entertainer, and it is good for magic in general. But when you "cheat" so to speak, and overuse technology to help you achieve better results, you are also cheating many other magicians out of their livelihood who cannot live up to what Angel is doing on TV. What are you going to tell the kids at your next birthday party when you can't walk up the wall, or vanish from underneath that garbage can and appear on the roof? Blaine did stunts yes, but he also did a ton of magic during his specials. Magic that you find in almost any shop, and he kept it real for the most part. That is the problem though, magicians want to see magic that they actually have a chance of replicating, not some freak walking up a wall. True, laymen probably do not care either way...but what Angel does with his pyrotechnics do not exactly encourage, or motivate magicians with not even a fraction of the money he has to do what he does. So in a sense he is also hurting other magicians, because they do not have access to what he has access to. But personally I would love to see more magic that is actually realistic to magicians as well. Mondo magic did well with that, so did another show that had Michael Ammar on doing his "appearing bottle" and "half in bottle" routine. I forget what it was called, but it was very short lived, as mondo magic was. Strange how some of the best shows doing mostly legitimate magic were canceled, as they were the ones I found most enjoyable. I guess "death defying feats of idiocy" sells much better. I am not really being hard on myself, I was simply expressing a point. When laymen say something is merely editing which isn't, they are actually proving just how little they know about magic, which is a good thing. Regardless, I think I might get it and do it for him. When he asks how I did it, I will simply say "editing/camera tricks." That should floor him.
The great trouble with magicians is the fact that they believe when they have bought a certain trick or piece of apparatus, and know the method or procedure, that they are full-fledged mystifiers. -- Harry Houdini
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Tim Trono Inner circle 1114 Posts |
Steve, I'm not sure how one can claim the "original" is about to be released this summer since, to my knowledge, there is NO other version of the Self Tying Shoelace released prior to the Noblezada routine. Please correct me if there is in fact a version already released. I'd also be very careful about assuming "original" based on time. Eric Mead had created a version of this effect over 10 years ago but readily acknowledges that he kept it tight to himself so if someone else came up with a version and released this effect commercially prior to him it is something he cannot put down.
Tim |
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magicdoctor Veteran user Wi. 377 Posts |
When I saw this done by DB I almost fell off my chair,I could'nt believe what I was seeing.I sat and watched the video over and over finally mife wife comes over by me takes one look at it and figures it out.I was so embarssed.I had to buy it.when I got the effect in the mail,I was dumbfounded on the simplicity of this trick.I have used it several times now and had nothing but great responses.the other day I was with a group of people and was ready to perform,one lady in the crowd mentioned to me that my shoe lace was untied and made a remark about tieing my shoelace like David Blaine did, in his special.she said it sarcasticly so I told her I could only try.I proceded to do it.the look on her face was pricless I wish I had a a camera.she was absolutly stunned.I'm going to buy another one for a nother pair of pants. Two thumbs up for the simple!
Michael Von Schroeder [url]www.vonmagic.com[/url]
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ruijorge Loyal user 215 Posts |
So the gimmick is sewn into the pants, or can be used with every single pant?
Thanks! |
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Phil C Special user Ontario, Canada 903 Posts |
Hi,
I just got this effect yesterday. Pretty good value for the price. Well produced DVD and booklet. ruijorge, the gimmick can probably be used with any long pants. |
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teevtee Special user 963 Posts |
The gimmick is NOT sewn anywhere, pants or otherwise. You can simply move it from one oufit to another and it takes maybe 30 seconds. Obvioulsy you can purchase the trick several times if you want to have it set up in multiple outfits all at once, but it is EASILY moved.
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ruijorge Loyal user 215 Posts |
In order to make the trick, do you need to have your hands inside the pockets?
Thanks |
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Jeff J. Special user Connecticut 787 Posts |
I was a little surprised at the gimmick when I bought it. The gimmick is well built, but it has one extra piece that is not needed if you get the cleaner gimmick, and makes the effect a little harder to do and makes it a little bulkier. One of my vendors sent me samples of a similar gimmick, but without the extra piece. The "simpler gimmick" is less than 3 bucks, so I don't know why they went with the one they did. I priced both gimmicks and the one that needs the extra piece and more work is only a few cents cheaper.
It may be that the gimmick that my vendor sent me is sold in minimum quantity of 1,000, but I would imagine they put out at least 1,000. Perhaps they just didn't know it was available. It took me days to find that a better gimmick even existed. All in all, it is a great effect. |
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teevtee Special user 963 Posts |
No, you do not need to have your hands in your pocket, in fact the method they show on the DVD does NOT have your hands in your pocket at any time. You could adpat this to use with your hand in your pocket if you so desire.
In trems of gimmicks, I do know what Ibd1Mon99 is talking about though I find the differences almost meaningless. The provided gimmick is very small and (for me atleast) has worked well. |
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Steve Hook Inner circle Raleigh, NC, USA 1266 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-05-18 02:59, Tim Trono wrote: Tim, I'm not sure you should be calling me on this because it doesn't sound like you know the whole story. I'll PM you. Steve
Like Bonnie Raitt said, "I miss Little Feat more than I miss being 8 years old." Thanks for the concerts + recordings, Lowell, Richie, and Paul!
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Jeff J. Special user Connecticut 787 Posts |
Teevtee:
If it works for you, that's great. I'm sure it works fine for others too. I never said the way it is now is bad, it's just that with the clothes I wear and my "aim", the simpler, less bulky gimmick works better for me and I would imagine may work better for others. My vendor is willing to sell me 100 rather than 1,000 so I think I will go that way. Several lifetimes supply |
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teevtee Special user 963 Posts |
Sure, I agree that a smaller gimmick is almost always better so I don't mean to sound like I am disagreeing with you... I just wanted to make sure it was clear to people who are considering this that the supplied gimmick still works quite well for most.
100 of them huh, that really is a lifetime supply and then some! |
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