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Seth Special user 566 Posts |
Actually I've been thinking about R.Paul Wilson's idea about seeing the coin arrive before, then looking at the other hand and seeing that the coin leave. Do you guys think it weakens the effect thereby letting it comply with the too perfect theory?
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Danny Archer V.I.P. Philly 607 Posts |
Quote:
On 2002-12-09 19:33, Bob Kohler wrote: Bob's quote says it all ... the conditions/venue/audience size are all factors that influence how I do the routine. I practice it both ways and use whatever way I feel will be best for the situation I am in ... |
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Spydur Special user PDX, now San Diego...back to PDX 966 Posts |
Here is an idea that you might like to try. I have played with doing the 3 fly into the spectator's hands. I like to be in contact with my audience. (This only works for close-up.) So the first coin will travel from left hand to my right then I place it into their hand. Pick it back up and have the second one travel across. Use the ever popular gag, you know the one and give the spec the "two" coins. Actually you have given them all three. Vanish the third coin and have it reappear in the spec's closed hand.
Just a thought... Corey B. |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
About the timing of the transits when I do the routine...
1) simultaneous (hands at chest level) so coin seems to jump across impossible distance 2) Eyes follow imagined flight and JUST before the eyes get to the 'catching hand' the move is done to produce the coin. This covers the removal of a coin in the 'pitching' hand. 3) At this point we truly have a challenge situation. So I do a one handed retention pass and follow the coin up, and as with second flight, do the production just before my eyes contact my 'catching' hand. This works whether using edge grip coin production moves, or my intimate original handling which uses a very bold back clip recovery. Sorry about the last coin vanish. I am discussing options with some bright folks to make something more accessible than my move workable and available. Can I upload a video file to this forum? When done for just a few people this routine can REALLY use the misdirection on the second coin. When coupled with the open handed back clip recovery, this gets quite a reaction.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Amon-Re New user Holland 86 Posts |
How big is the video? I'm able to host it for you on a machine with lots of bandwith capacity for a while. This gives you the possibility to link to it in this forum. PM me if interested.
Cheers, Remon |
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Pete Biro 1933 - 2018 18558 Posts |
LEFAY UND KOHLER... nice to see you here. I just landed moments after Genii Died... Having seen Kenner do it some time back, I wonder if I have the chops for it? Bob, before I spend the hides on your version, which do you suggest for practicing? Or are they all OBSOLETE and yours is the ONLY WAY?
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
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Dan Watkins Inner circle PA 3028 Posts |
For those of you who do not know, "JonTown" who posted 3 posts up is Jonathan Townsend the man who is credited for starting the whole visible coins across concept which all 3 fly routines are based on. Welcome to the forum Jon!
And Pete... welcome here as well, this is a very nice forum, as you can see a place you can really focus in on specific niches of magical topics. As one who owns Bob's U3F, I would say that the actual mechanics of Bob's routine would be hard to practice without the specific gaff coins employed. I would additionally say that working on Paul Wilson's Crowded Coins from the "Knock Em Dead" video would probably be the closest practice because of the method Paul employs to create the vanishes and reproductions. You can adapt Bob's gaff directly into Paul's routine without much change if you wanted. I still prefer Bob's taught handling with a few subtle changes of course to match my peforming style. |
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Chris S Veteran user 393 Posts |
I know I for one would be VERY keen to see the routine that started it all. I am sure all of us that are interested in the three-fly premise would love to see it. I hope that we can see it in the near future. Thanks for adding your input, Jonathan!
May your moral compass guide you true - South West is where the honourable man fare. Pity those who lose their way...
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Quote:
Or are they all OBSOLETE and yours is the ONLY WAY.. Pete, If you are more than five feet from the audience, using silver dollars is probably a good idea. From there, whatever mechanical assistance you can get is on your side. If however you are right up close to them at a coffee table or standing around with some folks, well I have to wonder...
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Bob Kohler Special user 704 Posts |
It's hard to believe that it was 20 years ago when Jonathon showed both me and Chris Kenner his quantum leap in coins across at the New York Magic Symposium. I remember that both of us freaked.
Jonathon has always been one of the most creative magicians with a real bent towards visuals. He has many unpublished methods, routines and techniques that are truly diabolical. I've been very fortunate to spend time with him, although it's been many years since our paths have crossed. I think it's great that so many fine magicians have adapted the 3 Fly plot to there style. Pete, I agree with Dan that my routine would be difficult to prepare for without the coin set. Paul's routine though would give you a nice jump start. Personally, I believe that silver dollar sized coins are best for all situations. Since the coins are essentially held at the fingertips throughout the routine, the size of the dollars really increases the illusion. Of course, this depends on the size of your hands but I recommend dollars if possible. Using a shell or my Ultimate 3 Fly set definitely increases the cleaness of the routine. The heat is really on the moment after each coin travels. Using a gimmick instead of an extra coin gives the performer the power to show that only three coins are in play. I believe this is the crux of the method. You must prove relentlessly after each phase that you only have three. The extra coin(s) theory is certainly the first solution everbody comes up with from 3 to 83 years old. The second common solution is the coins are going up one sleeve and down the other...easy enough to cancel. The difficulty of using a shell is essentially getting the coin inside back out. That's the half the beauty of the Ultimate 3 Fly gimmick. All gimmicks require attention to there use just like all good sleights. I personally use and most of my friends who use Ulimate 3 Fly will attest that they use it everywhere from table hopping, walkaround and parlor. Some have used it at sales meetings on large monitors. Todd Lassen's incredible machining of the gaff makes it practical for very close up situations. Yes you do need to be aware of your angles a little, yes...you do need to to use all of the techniques on the tape. But remember with proper direction of the audience, you can easily keep their attention where you need it to be. Pete, track me down at the World Magic convention and I'll run you through it. |
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Dan LeFay Inner circle Holland 1371 Posts |
Wow! Now if only mr. Kenner and mr.Kurtz joined in that would make a 3-fly-pilot dream come true!
Bob, some time ago you mentioned a special forum/chatgroup concerning U3F, is this still in the make? I heard rumours about Eric Mead being very good at the effect? Anyone of you seen him perform it? Mr. Biro, sind Ihre Finger fertig wieder? BTW I just tried all the stuff mentioned on this thread, tonight for 60 Japanese buisinessmen with their spouses. (first a closed handed version, then 3-fly...and Bob's suggestions with improving the conditions...also doing the "slow" and the "fast" versions). I am a little dazed and confused after so much experimenting. Doing both an open and a close handed version of a coins across appears to be a little challenging to the audience. What I intend to try next time is doing a close handed version for table magic, and at the end when I finish with my central stand up piece, do U3F one more time...as an afterthought. Doesn't matter anyhow...what a GREAT trick!
"Things need not have happened to be true.
Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths, that will endure when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot." Neil Gaiman |
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Pete Biro 1933 - 2018 18558 Posts |
This trick reminds of seeing Goshman--a loooong time ago--do the SUN & MOON... A trick I really loved. Will go, right now, and dig my coins out and work on THAT.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
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Michael Rubinstein V.I.P. 4665 Posts |
Friday night I was with some of the NY inner circle guys, and we were priviliged to see Eric Mead perform his version of 3Fly. It was very direct and convincing, and his hands looked extremely clean (and it even looked better than my own version....nuts!).
S.E.M. (The Sun, the Moon, and the Earth) is a sun and moon routine unlike any other. Limited to 100 sets, here is the promo:
https://youtu.be/aFuAWCNEuOI?si=ZdDUNV8lUPWvtOcL $325 ppd USA (Shipping extra outside of USA). If interested, shoot me an email for ordering information at rubinsteindvm@aol.com |
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DA New user New jersey 48 Posts |
I don't really do 3-fly. But I strongly beleave anything to fast will confuse the specs.
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Chris S Veteran user 393 Posts |
Did Eric do the Kohler method or was it an ungaffed method, doc?
May your moral compass guide you true - South West is where the honourable man fare. Pity those who lose their way...
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Michael Rubinstein V.I.P. 4665 Posts |
Chris, since I only saw a presentation of the effect, I think its up to Eric to answer that question.
S.E.M. (The Sun, the Moon, and the Earth) is a sun and moon routine unlike any other. Limited to 100 sets, here is the promo:
https://youtu.be/aFuAWCNEuOI?si=ZdDUNV8lUPWvtOcL $325 ppd USA (Shipping extra outside of USA). If interested, shoot me an email for ordering information at rubinsteindvm@aol.com |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Has anyone considered holding the coins in 'coinroll' position (ie rolling out the coins so one between a pair of fingers) when there is more than one coin in the hand? It might make for a better display.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Dan Watkins Inner circle PA 3028 Posts |
Quote:
On 2002-12-19 15:40, JonTown wrote: and for me, a lot more drops. |
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Curtis Kam V.I.P. same as you, plus 3 and enough to make 3498 Posts |
Jon, I fooled with this a little, and you might like the way it looks when combined with Now U See It Now U Don't. It's just about the only practical way I can think of to do a Visual Coins Across from that position.
Is THAT a PALMS OF STEEL 5 Banner I see? YARRRRGH! Please visit The Magic Bakery
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Conus Special user 657 Posts |
You guys are great. Lots of terrific approaches to a great effect.
At times, I have used from one to five coins for 3 Fly. Have also used coins in different sizes and colors -- and gaffs such as shells and flippers. I don't think method matters to audience members just as long as you can entertain them. At times, I belong to the "simultaneous vanish and production" group. Other times I subscribe to the "time delay" school. Lately, I just prefer presenting the idea that a coin is vanished and then retrieved from the ether. Best, -- Conus |
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