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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » A beginner's review of the 7 Deceptions and PK touches » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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AllThumbs
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Quote:
For me, the main point of doing mentalist is "Forcing" and "Toying" with your languange and presentation. That's it.


That's a bit like saying magic is just palming and picking a card, putting it back and finding it again. Which of course it isn't. Smile

It was me who said "you have to have a good overall rounded knowledge
of mentalism". If "Forcing" and "Toying" with your language and presentation (vital in both magic and mentalism) doesn't interest you then you'll probably be wasting your money here.

If you are new to mentalism, welcome, however start with something much less challenging and start from the beginning and go through the process slowly and thoroughly like I am sure you did with your magic.

All the best,

Kris Sheglova
The above is all rubbish, except that which you chose to believe
Mesaboogie
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Lior has already published this effect, just not a full detailed version.

I would, however, be interested if Derren did buy the rights to perform it on TV; Lior, have you seen Derren's Mind Control third special?
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Lior
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No he didn't
How much do you think I need to charge???
I did it on my TV show .
Lior
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Nir Dahan
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Lior,

as far as I know (and I went quite deep into that) you can't charge anything for it. magic (like many other rights) can not be copyrighted.
it's the same thing as writing a new song, can you prevent from someone to sing it on tv? no you can't. as far as rights go, the written word only is protected!

Nir
Lior
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I forgot to put the smiley Smile
I am not going toncharge him

But I can sell the rights for something that I create.

Have you read the new Tamariz book??

Lior
Talk To The Screen. The best effect for professionals
http://www.theliortouch.com

The Invisble touches , spoon bending, PK combinations
8 loops from Yigal Mesika http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/8161

Penguin Live lecture http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/7645
PEA Dave Lederman Award 2009
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Sariel
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Quote:
On 2002-12-08 23:13, Hengky Ciptanegara wrote:
Hittman,

What do you mean by "you have to have a good overall rounded knowledge of mentalism"?

Yes I am called myself a magician not mentalist but I do not see any big difference at all. For me, the main point of doing mentalist is "Forcing" and "Toying" with your languange and presentation. That's it.


Listen to AllThumbs, he knows Smile
If you're new to mentalism, and don't know anything about it, you better start with the 13 steps and Jinx. Right now I've been going through the 13 steps, maybe in a month or so I'll order Jinx.
I'm not going to use 7 deceptions effects on stage, just in casual gatherings between friends; I'm not ready to perform this kind of effects on stage in front of a big audience.

Quote:
You said that 7 Deceptions use a kind of languange, is it mean that any language outside English could not be used to make this effect work, isn't it?

Hengky


No, the English language is my second language. I live in Portugal, all my effects are performed in Portuguese, I rarely use English IRL.
You got to have some work to translate to your own language; as for 7 deceptions I recommend some NLP background for doing this, since the effects are based on it.
Lee Davies
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I disagree entirely. '13 Steps' will not introduce you to any of Luke's methods within 7 D. Luke's work stands on it's own merits and the book is very detailed in performing the disired effects with plently of fodder to create your own.

NLP!? I been performing suggestion routines for years and I’ve never been on a NLP course. The day I received Luke’s work I was successfully performing the effects within the day. Mind you, instead of butterflies, I used cows fools them every time Smile
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Sariel
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Quote:
On 2002-12-10 17:19, Lee Davies wrote:
[I disagree entirely. '13 Steps' will not introduce you to any of Luke's methods within 7 D. Luke's work stands on it's own merits and the book is very detailed in performing the disired effects with plently of fodder to create your own.


But you must agree that without some basic magic (or mentalism) knowledge it will be harder to present this effects. I mentioned the 13 steps because it's an introduction to mentalism, for someone who knows very little or nothing about (like me). If I had bought the 7 deceptions without having read and practice some aspects of the 13 steps I wouldn't be able to do most of the effects.

Quote:
NLP!? I been performing suggestion routines for years and I’ve never been on a NLP course. The day I received Luke’s work I was successfully performing the effects within the day. Mind you, instead of butterflies, I used cows fools them every time Smile


I've never been on a NLP course either, just read a few books and practice a few stuff. I just said it was EASIER if you have some knowledge on NLP; not that is an essential aspect, just something that can make things easier. Sorry, if I didn't make that clear before.
I haven't tried the butterfly effect yet, but if done with a live butterfly I believe the effect on the audience will be amazing Smile
saglaser
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Quote:
On 2002-12-09 05:15, Nir Dahan wrote:
Lior,

as far as I know (and I went quite deep into that) you can't charge anything for it. magic (like many other rights) can not be copyrighted.
it's the same thing as writing a new song, can you prevent from someone to sing it on tv? no you can't. as far as rights go, the written word only is protected!

Nir



I don't know what the copyright laws are in Israel or Germany. In the US, though, if somebody sings a song you've written on TV, you get a royalty check.
freddyvegas
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you all confuse me
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bigplumbz
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Saglas, I was also thinking the same...I have been acting in Heartbreak high in UK for a whle and I asked the producers why we cannot have "popular" tunes in the background....the answer came in the form of a bill for hundreds of thousands just to pay for the general rights to play the song...now to have someone else actually sing it? Id imagine you pay more!
just my thoughts
bryan
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RE: popular tunes in the background:
Yes, it is quite true that you'd have to pay royalties to the copyright holders for performing a piece of music on TV. I am also a musician and am aware of the copyright laws in the USA regarding music.
This is one reason why TV shows and films generally hire composers to write scores for shows--to avoind copyright hassles. The other reason is that popular tunes are in most cases not suitable for the film/show/scenes in question, and usually distract the viewer from the show itself. This is especially true of vocals.
Music must be very carefully written and timed for film & TV use--sometimes to fractions of seconds. It's used to emphasize the action, not just because somebody in management hasppens to like a certain tune . . .
firstron
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So how much many did Derren paid Lior?????



ron l ron o ron o ron p
bigplumbz
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I think if Derren independantly "created" this effect, he would have assumed it his own. Now I may be wrong here and pls correct me if I am, but i **THINK** you would be fine performing an effect you created by yourself evn though someone has created it before you, as long as you had no prior knowledge
A l a i n B e ll o n
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Yes, there is really nothing to do about independent invention. All you can do is publish your material so you get credit.

Regarding the ease of use of Luke's material I think that more than requiring knowledge of mentalism techniques you need strong presentational skills. If you have the latter, you can pretty much do what Luke says and it will work. You could have a great knowledge of mentalism and still not have the skills to perform some of Luke's effects. Also, besides the skills it will require a fitting performing style and disposition.
shrink
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Having tried one or two effects from Lukes book with varying results I come to the following conclusion?

That the situation has to be right for the effects to work and that an element of the effects is missing from the book. To just go up and do the effects dependant upon suggestion cold, makes it difficult to get results.

If anyone has done any stage hypnosis you will probably know what I am talking about. The expectation, the hightened emotional state and expectation of the participant on stage in front of a live audience puts them in a state that makes them more suggestable.

Try doing a rapid induction cold in an everyday type situation and you will find it near impossible, however on stage you can do spectacular inductions with ease if you know what your doing.

I believe (i may be wrong)that the same goes for luke's work in that these effects are easier to pull off in front of a live audience that has come to see the show or event with all the built in expectation that goes with it.

This is how I would practice and integrate this material with material already used. By gradually trying out the effects in a show type situation. Unfortunately Im not in to many of these type situations these days. Smile
bigplumbz
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I have been speaking to Lior for a while now, and genuinley believe this IS his effect...but lets say someone created it before him...WHO CARES? Lior has found a very successful way of performing this effect and has included it in his shows for many years. When he has finished writing his book including this effect I wish him all the best of luck, and he should class the effect as his. I also believe Lior would have checked around for this effect when he created it, As i hacve created my own version of this, and thought it was my own effect entirley=hadnt even seen derren do it, I searched and searched and found noone else who had created this effect...only when i spoke to lior did i realise that he had independantly created the effect beforehand. What i am trying to say is that "little research" is a lot more difficult than you would imagine.
Bryan
Julien
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Mr Manor, with all due respect, although I'm sure you came up with this independently, more than 14 years ago, Philippe Socrate came up with the same effect, using close means and a slightly different approach (he didn't use a loop, but a hookup, which you can find on his tape prduced by Pierre Mayer in the early 80s, which Ammar reproduced on his trilogy).

He didn't get the Dunninger award from the PEA though ;-)

All the best !
Lior
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Thanks for your post
I am happy to know people like you and I am happy to know that we have some people that we can trust in this magic world


good luck you all
Lior
Talk To The Screen. The best effect for professionals
http://www.theliortouch.com

The Invisble touches , spoon bending, PK combinations
8 loops from Yigal Mesika http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/8161

Penguin Live lecture http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/7645
PEA Dave Lederman Award 2009
PEA Dunninger Award 2001
Life Time Achivmeant IUPA 2016
bigplumbz
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Lol, nice to here it Lior. Let us know how your book gets on and when it is for sale...make sure you post it up somewhere where everyone can see it!
best wishes mate
bryan
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