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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Right or Wrong? » » Incarnum PK Ring - Another Rip-Off? (1 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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CoinMan21
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I chanced upon this product that looks awfully similar to the Wizard PK ring.
http://www.renoraine.com.my/webshaper/st......tem=1426

Is this a blatant rip-off? I remembered there was another Neo magnetic ring which surfaced some time ago. Any comments on this?
ClouDsss
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I have emailed Porper with regards to this matter and have yet to receive a reply

But I doubt there is anything porper can do. There is currently a large debate in a certain forum where this product is marketed.

The discussion can be found here

Go read and see how they actually support such stuff Smile

I have also found that IPK is now on the Magic Fakers website together with the Neo Ring.
Think outside the box, cos people are all thinking inside now!! - ClouDsss
seigeman
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... and another one:

The Incredible Black's Magic PK Ring... I am sure the Wizard PK boys are laughing their socks off, imitation is the most sincere form of flattery.

The fact that the Black's ring is nowhere near as powerful at the surface (due to it's curve) I wonder how on earth they can make such claims?

I notice they've also copied practically word-for-word the Wizard PK stuff... some people have no imagination whatsoever... steal the idea, and then steal the words.
ClouDsss
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These pirates are batantly riding on the success of the Wizard PK Ring.

There is absolutely no originality in the imitations and they are just cheaper versions of the authentic Wizard PK Ring. I believe that they are hoping to confuse magicians into buying their rip offs.

In addition, none of these pirates are willing to stand by their products and offer lifetime guarantees. I believe that there is no customer service once the money has been paid.

"Why buy a more expensive but poorer quality ring when you can have this work of art!" - I think this claim is ludicrous and honestly, on what grounds are they making that their rings are of a better quality?

I bought a WPK and refuse to pay for cheap imitations. There is ethics involved here and I prefer to support the authentic WPK.

Support Originals and hopefuly, with time, such acts will be reduced and eventually stopped
Think outside the box, cos people are all thinking inside now!! - ClouDsss
mrmagic0
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Well said, Cloudsss


Ron
DerekMerdinyan
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You know what is really sick?

At the bottom of the page, there is a "refrence" link to the PK ring, a description, etc...

Total crap!

Derek Merdinyan
CoinMan21
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Seems like there is heated argument over at http://forums.malaysiamagicfellowship.co......pic=1402
jcrai
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Is every magnetic ring a rip-off of the Wizard? The idea wasn't original to the Wizard.
CoinMan21
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The idea isn't original but I think it's the first 100% neodymium rare earth magnet ring to be marketed.
Tim Trono
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Jcrai, you bring up a very interesting point that should be examined in more detail. I think it IS clear that magnetic rings have been out well before the Wizard PK Ring... MasteRing by John Altpeter, Elohim Ring, and even MUCH earlier in a ring by Emerson and West. What the original PK Wizard Ring offers that DIFFERS from the prior items noted above is that the Wizard PK Ring IS the magnet or visa versa. This IS their creation period. In my opinion this allows for more flexibility and versatility. If you change the strength, price, color, etc. it is, in my opinion, still the exact same thing and is not authorized.

Tim Trono
ClouDsss
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Is there anything that can be done to deter such actions?

It seems that the debate over at the other forum is getting kinda heated with threads of charges for defamation Smile
Think outside the box, cos people are all thinking inside now!! - ClouDsss
Expertmagician
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Funny, I have a friend of mine who makes a magnetic wedding band which is sleightly stronger than the PK Ring and double gold plated or Chrome plated for $26. But, I have not tried to market it because I felt funny knocking it off.

I only sold it to personal friends and it was great to fool magicians who know the PK ring because the shape of the wedding band is different than the Wizard PK Ring.
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Tim Trono
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Hi ClouDsss. I think the only action is TO support the original and NOT support the others in any magic item.

Once the non authorized versions of magic tricks don't make any money they will eventually fade away one at a time.

The frustrating part is that I see the time, effort, and money that a lot of the originators of various items spend on developing and releasing a product. Then I see others jump on the band wagon because they SEE an item is successful and simply assume it is OK to make an unauthorized version. They want to cash in on someone else's success. This really hurts the creative people who ARE working hard to give us good products.

But unfortunately magic is a very niche market. Patents are time consuming, expensive, and expensive to truly enforce. If one tries to legally stop a rip off it quite frankly takes a lot of time, money, and energy. Most of the time it is virtually impossible to truly collect the damages. Often it is made more difficult because a rip off may be made in another country so taking legal action from one country to another is very difficult. Magic is not a huge money making market, like the record industry as an example, so the legitimate producers don't have the money to fight for their products and the people making unauthorized items typically don't have the finances to make it worthwhile if they ever were taken to court. Sometimes people will buy a rip off because it costs less. This is wrong. Sometimes shops will carry an unauthorized item because it costs less. This is wrong. It is very difficult to police. But the one thing that works is the old pocketbook. IF it is VERY clear that an item is not authorized simply don't buy it (even if it is cheaper), discourage your favorite dealer from stocking it, discourage your friends, let the producer of the unauthorized item know you don't condone that and it could negatively effect you buying other items that are part of their line, buy and support the original item. In other words no one wants to produce an item if it won't sell and if it can negatively impact their other sales. But make sure you have the facts, don't jump to conclusions (GET the facts), be professional in your dealings, and give the person offering the unauthorized item a chance to do the right thing. We all make mistakes... it is how we deal with them when we find out that they are mistakes that matters.

Tim Trono
CoinMan21
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An interesting post cited from the malaysian forums. Renoraine, the supposed creator of IPK, was the one who posted.

Quote:
MAGIC Café RUCKUS : It is really funny going through those postings by the members of Magic Café. Differing views with regard to those who are pro-originals, and anti-imitation products, in comparison to the others who would either sit on the fence, or kust keep their mouth shut.

The point is, the members claimed that they would support originals, that's fair enough. But to be misled into thinking that the WPk is the original 100% Neodymium Ring Mxxnxx to be fashioned into a Ring, is a laughable joke. The Neo Ring Mxxnxx IS ALREADY A RING to begin with. These are NOT readily available locally, but rest assured, they are an abundance in the manufacturing industry.

Wizard obviously did not reflect a sense of originality for something that is already in existence, and neither did they design the exterior of the Ring simply because, that is how the Ring LOOKED LIKE in its completed stage!!!

What Wizard did is, taking the magnet, which happens to be a ring, and slide it onto the finger. And there you have it, "ORIGINAL IDEA & INVENTION".

And finally, members of Magic Café are claiming that the others in the market are non-authorized versions. So? For the fact that the creator of Wizard is not willing, or rather, UNABLE to even take a copyright on the design of the Wizard PK Ring to protect their own interest, what is the point of ranting around here and there?

The reason is simple : No design right or even copyright would subsist in the Wizard PK Ring, or even being granted or taken into consideration for that matter, simply because the Wizard PK Ring is not an invention, neither is the design an original creation, and with all due respect, even if the idea originates from Magic Pro Shop, that is not to say that such an idea is TO THE EXCLUSION of the others - I'm sure there are a lot of folks who knew about the existence of such material for PK effects, but it is by chance that WorldMagic Shop marketed it first in the magic community.
conscell
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It's not necessarily relevant that the physical Wizard PK Ring itself isn't a new invention. The innovation is in recognizing that existing technology now exists (a very powerful ring magnet) that can be applied to create a set of effects that wouldn't have been possible with earlier technology. That's no different than someone selling a trick which applies existing sleights and other existing principles in a novel manner to create an effect. I think most people would agree that it's wrong to sell other people's innovations of that sort.
ClouDsss
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Well, we cant help it if he has supporters in his country. Let's just hope no one else helps to market his products.

I read that his version is stronger than Wizard by 3 times, and that he gave the green light despite warnings that the level of magnetism is too strong.

Would this be possible? And would it have any adverse effect on user's or other's health?
Think outside the box, cos people are all thinking inside now!! - ClouDsss
seigeman
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3 times stronger?

It's very, very doubtful. It's as I said above, imitation is a sincere form of flattery.

There is in existence industrial washers which can be used as rings, and it is also possible to mould neo magnets to many shapes. But the only way to INCREASE strength is to increase the thickness of the ring (scientific fact).

So unless these guys are stating that their ring has an outer diameter of 3 inches, and looks like you're wearing a donut, I can't really agree.

What the bottom line is here is that unless the developers of the Wizard PK would have taken the time to develop this, these brainless bandwagon jumpers would never had the initiative to do this themselves.

End of.
ClouDsss
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Quote:
On 2006-05-24 10:09, seigeman wrote:
What the bottom line is here is that unless the developers of the Wizard PK would have taken the time to develop this, these brainless bandwagon jumpers would never had the initiative to do this themselves.

End of.


How very true. And if the Wizard PK was not that successful, such rings would never have began to pop up like mushrooms, claiming to be better.
Think outside the box, cos people are all thinking inside now!! - ClouDsss
Expertmagician
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I find it hard to believe that anyone's magnet will be 3x as powerful as the PK ring.....I believe the PK Ring is a N35 grade magnet. Anything above a N40 will be too britle and will crack with sleight bangs during normal wear or if a metal object hits it too hard.

The main power issue has to do with the fact that the lines of flux go purpendicular through the ring vs. parallel to the ring.
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ClouDsss
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I have been wondering about the validity of IPK's claim too. And it seems that he does not have a Wizard PK Ring to compare with in the first place, unless I have read wrongly in that forum.

I wonder if he is trying to pull a fast one on his customers and misrepresent his ring.
Think outside the box, cos people are all thinking inside now!! - ClouDsss
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