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DaiBato Veteran user 310 Posts 
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So was Robert-Houdin right?
Do you have to be an actor to be a magician? Dai Bato |
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magicalaurie Inner circle Ontario, Canada 2962 Posts
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Can't hurt.
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27300 Posts
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Like she said, can't hurt to learn some real acting and theater skills
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Whit Haydn V.I.P. 5449 Posts
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You can't do magic without acting. Your acting skills may be good or bad. Your range doesn't need to be wide (you may need to play only a version of yourself).
But you will need to be able to act: You will want people not to think that you are just saying things you have memorized, and you will not want them to refuse to believe you when you pretend to "put the coin in the other hand." Being a great actor won't make you a great magician, but you can't be a great magician without being a good actor. If you want to improve your acting skills, you would go to someone who teaches acting. Con men, thieves, theatrical and film actors, jugglers, clowns, mimes, magicians--all use acting in their work, and all can benefit from studying the craft. The greater your acting skills, the better magician you will be. |
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Tom Bartlett Special user Our southern border could use 763 Posts
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Acting is the tool by which magic is made believable.
Our friends don't have to agree with me about everything and some that I hold very dear don't have to agree about anything, except where we are going to meet them for dinner.
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JackScratch Inner circle 2151 Posts
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It's a trick question. "Actor" and "Magician" are two dofferent words, with two different meanings. They do require many of the same things from their practicioners, but not so much as to do away with one word and just call them the same thing. You could easily apply the exact same techniques used for the stage, to a magic performance (any magic performance) and without question, improve your product considerably. One could also say that without the tools of the playwrite, you will produce a grotesqly substandard product. I know I would say that. It's cliche', but true, diong something fantastic is the easy part. Causing your audience to care that you did something fantastic is the hard part.
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Tom Bartlett Special user Our southern border could use 763 Posts
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If you your audience didn't see it as fantastic, it wasn't
Our friends don't have to agree with me about everything and some that I hold very dear don't have to agree about anything, except where we are going to meet them for dinner.
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JackScratch Inner circle 2151 Posts
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Quote:
On 2006-05-25 01:40, smoothassilk wrote: True, but you are missing my point. Any effect can be fantastic. Any effect can be a snoozefest. It's not the effect that makes it one or another. It's one of the reasons I lose my mind everytime someone starts a "What's the Strongest Effect Ever?" thread. |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts
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Quote:
On 2006-05-25 01:59, JackScratch wrote: Is it your position, similarly, that no plays are written any better than any others?
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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karbonkid Special user 951 Posts
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I for one, agree that acting is a part of magic, however, I don't think being a great actor will make you a good magician, as they are two different sets of skills.
For example, and to add to Whit's point, I play a version of myself, which really isn't very much different from myself in anyway other than one version of myself is a magician. People relate, etc. I have seen people who drop who they are and become this robot actor, canned patter-type garbage spitter with no life what-so-ever in their performance. I have seen them lose their audience because of it. Not that I think that an actor cannot be a good magician, just there has to be a harmony between the two. Acting alone will not do it, nire will the magic. |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27300 Posts
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Quote:
On 2006-05-25 01:34, JackScratch wrote: This is getting tiresome. Magic is a perception offered by the performer. It is just ONE of the things the theater has to offer. The world of story exists in the mind. The actor brings a story to other people via live performance. They do not just tell, they show. The audience sees the story happen. Magic as we know it in our craft is just ONE of the kinds of stories to be found in the theater. Usually it's the sorry tale of Clever Me who wishes others to admire them for pointless feats of trivial conjuring. We can do better than offer audiences some time with an idiot savant who expects others to admire their fussing. At least J. E. Robert-Houdin took the trouble to set forth the basic notion that a magician is not a juggler (clever me) but an actor playing the role of a wizard. As far as our society is concerned wizards live in the world of story. How close we bring that world to the world of the mundane is a matter of taste. There is another take on "magic" and "acting" which may help the adults here. Magic is like how we keep Santa and The Easter Bunny around. We do it FOR the kids. They get to enjoy the story for now, and when they are ready, they get to see the rest of the story in pieces. Till one day they are ready to be Santa and the Easter Bunny for others. That is part of the job of an adult. By extension, the role of wizard is a way of relating technical data to those who need not be burdened by the details. Sort of a geek/nerd with dignity (from the childish perspective) and a responsible adult from the larger social perspective. IMHO it's time to start acting (really) consistently as adults. The knowledge we use to make our little stories happen is not of use or interest to anyone but those who wish to similarly entertain. Grrrr. And so Drew/Jack gets to be right from a certain perspective.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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JackScratch Inner circle 2151 Posts
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Quote:
On 2006-05-25 02:32, LobowolfXXX wrote: Given that writing goes more with the concept of acting than "doing tricks" obviously not. Writing is a giant piece of what I am talking about here. I will send the question back at you. Do you consider the mechanics of an effect the equvilant of good writing? JT - the rest of my post very clearly reflects that. |
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George Ledo Magic Café Columnist SF Bay Area 3042 Posts
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Quote:
On 2006-05-25 08:47, karbonkid wrote: Sure, we all have, in magic, on stage, and in the movies -- those people who think acting is just memorizing and reciting lines, and who will stand there and do Shakespeare, or Ibsen, or Miller, or Simon, and make you think they're reciting the phone book. These people aren't acting: they are, as you put it, becoming this robot actor, spitting out canned patter with no life whatsoever. There's far far more to acting than memorizing lines and blocking and putting on the costume and makeup. That's why the vast majority of those people who have made it in this field have studied for years with the best acting teachers they can afford.
That's our departed buddy Burt, aka The Great Burtini, doing his famous Cups and Mice routine
www.georgefledo.net Latest column: "Sorry about the photos in my posts here" |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16543 Posts
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Quote:
On 2006-05-24 22:58, DaiBato wrote: Dead right - almost! You can't be a real magician can you? So what can you do other than act the part. Remenber to act the part of a "great" magician. Acting the the part of a bad one is no good. The part must come from own imagination - do not copy anyone.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27300 Posts
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Quote:
On 2006-05-25 09:26, JackScratch wrote:...Do you consider the mechanics of an effect the equvilant of good writing? I take the position that writing (plays/stories/scripts/storyboards...) and acting are required skills in this craft of offering stories to audiences. I spend FAR more time working on the story and motivations than on the technology (sleights/mechanics) behind presenting the works. Only after I have something that "reads" right do I shift focus onto realizing the work and seeking out or inventing the technology to bring that story to others. That's my take on things and it has its drawbacks, as it took a good long time before I had stories to motivate the actions behind some routines I like. Looking in books I feel daunted by the same sort of challenge that faced Tchaikovsky when he saw the Nutcracker all choreographed and was tasked to write the music. Lots of good tricks out there that just need context, character and motivation. It's gotten so bad that the book by my nightstand is about writing plays. 
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Tom Bartlett Special user Our southern border could use 763 Posts
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If you are just doing tricks and not telling a story or doing a routine “acting”, your audience will most likely just feel challenged, insulted and made a fool of and not be entertained.
Michael Ammar does not play a different character than himself, but he is acting. He act like a really nice guy, and he really is one of the nicest, most sincere people I’ve met. But when he does magic, it is with a well thought out routine, which has a primus, tells a story and dose not insult or make a fool of his audience. He presents it as though it was not a routine but spontaneous. This spontaneity is created buy “acting”. Whit Hydn does the same thing as Ammar but Whit is in “charter” when he does any of his routines, but they always come across as fresh and spontaneous like all great magic presentations do. JackScrtach, if your magic is presented like your questions are, argumentative and confrontational, and I can see why your audience some times reacts the way you imply they do. If we change the way we act we get a different response.
Our friends don't have to agree with me about everything and some that I hold very dear don't have to agree about anything, except where we are going to meet them for dinner.
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kregg Inner circle 1950 Posts
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According to agents and casting directors:
I can be a magician who acts, not an actor who does magic. I don't make the rules, the "open minded" people in studios do - Kumbaya.
POOF!
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Tom Cutts Staff Northern CA 5930 Posts
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Without acting there is no magic, only tricks.
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Tom Bartlett Special user Our southern border could use 763 Posts
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Well said, Tom Cutts
Our friends don't have to agree with me about everything and some that I hold very dear don't have to agree about anything, except where we are going to meet them for dinner.
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JackScratch Inner circle 2151 Posts
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Quote:
On 2006-05-25 10:31, smoothassilk wrote: You've made a whole host of incorrect assumptions. I have never implied that my audience does anything but enjoy my work, and if you read something other than that, then you are stretching. Could you perhaps be refering to quotes recieved from an audience that can be taken completely out of context, or even be things an audience member had in his mind, and has not yet been shown the reality of the situation. As for my questions and arguements. I don't normaly see, nor do I expect to see, my audience presenting me with logical falicies in the guise of knowledge while enjoying my performances. Something I have come to rely upon in these forums, as one would and oldest and trusted friend. Karbonkid, you are a prime example. Why do you keep trotting out the same tired anecdotal falacy that you've seen someone use a script who wasn't good so OBVIOUSLY everyone who uses a script is bad, stiff, robotic, whatever? I feel sorry for people who correct that assumption because they haven't realised their time is wasted, you will just use it again. |
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Posted: May 25, 2006 02:58 am 
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