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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The little darlings » » Kovari's Turbo Bunny vs. Run Wolf Run (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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The Great Smartini
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Quote:

I completely agree, but there is a buch of fellow magicians out there that are forgetting the magic side completely and getting entertaiment (for who) mostly out of sucker effects. I think this is not good for magic overall, and this type of presentations is what cause that "sting" in the audience and that desire and belive that is their duty to catch the magician.


All in the presentation...I like the way Terry Herbert plays a "sucker" trick...the children are the ones who do the magic and the ones that help him...this same line of thinking is the recommended presentation with RWR...I totally agree with not going down the "I'm the clever magician" tone as it can rightly put off your audience.
p.b.jones
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I honestly am not as concerned with the "magic" of my products as I am the entertainment value. That's my philosophy and I'm sticking to it


Hi,
this is evident by the amazing colour changing back wall on the demo of Blammo box!

http://www.wolfsmagic.com/KA_BLAMMO.htm

:yikes:

Maybe its a bonus effect Smile

Lovely looking prop but basic black art mistake for such a pricy prop
Chance Wolf
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My mother once said...if ya aint got anthing good to say...nobody will want to play with you Smile
Creator of Wacky Wolf Productions & Fine Collectibles

A DECADE of building Magic and we're just getting started!

http://www.wolfsmagic.com
Danny Hustle
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Chance,

I think Phillip was giving constructive criticism with a little humor. I do not think he was trying to say anything unkind. Watching the video it is a stark color change when the inside walls turn from black when you put your hand in to drop the hank and to the BRIGHT yellow when the walls fall down. I thought it was quite noticeable and weakens the effect.

Your stuff is very well made and of the highest quality. You obviously take a lot of pride in your products and with so much of the overseas garbage that is passing for props it is nice to be able to find a Cadillac in a sea of Hyundai's.

That being said, I think the trick would be a lot more deceptive if the walls were also black. It would make the prop a bit less colorful but it would be a heck of a lot more magical IMHO. Who knows, maybe only us magic guys would notice the stark change. I do think Phillip has a valid point in this case. I also know I would feel a lot more confident about it if it were my prop if those fall down walls were flat black on the inside. JOGO YMMV

Best,

Dan-
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"MT is one of the reasons we started this board! I’m so sick of posts being deleted without any reason given, and by unknown people at that." - Steve Brooks Sep 7, 2001 8:38pm
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Potty the Pirate
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Philip and Dan, thanks for pointing that out. I'm not sure if that panel will show if the KaBlammo is worked differently. If it is still too obvious, my KaBlammo will henceforth have a black rear panel. It's a very easy modification, a sheet of black felt costs about 40p. Kids glue is ideal to stick felt, and comes off clean. It may not be neccessary though, I've used the KaBlammo several times, and mostly got a gasp of amazement once I finally work the effect. I create a snowstorm just before it works, so the audience's eyes are momentarily distracted.
It would be fair to point out that Chance puts out many items, and with every one he has a remarkable track record. I own all his Kids props except the Snake basket. Every single prop is exceptional, I use them all regularly, and always have fun with them. There have been small problems, such as the one with the rear yellow panel you kindly pointed out, and I had a small problem with my weasel mechanism at first. Of course, Chance stands behind all his products and always helps solve any problems. All my Wolf Magic props now work fully, and flawlessly. They're fun and there's plenty of magic when it's needed.
You have to think of Wolf's Magic as art. The Outhouse especially, is a thing of great beauty to those of us with childish minds.....a toilet so painstakingly hand made. Really, the attention to detail is unbelievable!....And it comes with a routine that's such a great twist on an already classic plot!
It's a joy to work with such cool props, which are so original and fun. My audiences can't get enough of Wolf's Magic!
magicinsight
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Instead of black felt, could you paint it with a flat black paint?

Michael
“Belief matters more than truth. Every moment, belief in imaginary things alters lives while truth sits unnoticed and waits.”
—Hakim, Loreweaver
Chance Wolf
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Hey folks,
PB Jones is correct. This was an oversight and will be corrected at our cost for everyone who has purchased this effect. The emails are going out later this evening explaining the solution and how we will handle it. PLEASE do NOT do anything to your prop until we have contacted you.
OK Phillip. You can pat yourself on the back and go tell all your friends that you alone have shaved the WOLF!! Smile
Take care
Chance
Creator of Wacky Wolf Productions & Fine Collectibles

A DECADE of building Magic and we're just getting started!

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Andy Wonder
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Congratulations p.b.jones
Andy Wonder, Auckland, New Zealand
Wizzy
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It is great to realise that there are good guys about who can pick up the flaws and put them forward so that things can be put right.
Well done P.B.Jones
NJJ
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Now I've got images of p.b. shaving chance stuck in my head.


to be honest, I didn't notice the problem at all when I watched the video. But I guess you fix these things not for the 99 people who didn't notice but for the one who did.
rogueclown
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P.b.jones,
Do you also make magic? I looked at your website, It was hard to figure out if you build props too. I would love a link of your show. I always try to see what other performers are doing out there so that I can be sure that what I am doing is the best show that families can watch. Oh, by the way, you must have watched that video a lot. Where you thinking of using it in your show? I know that you have done your act for awhile, but change is good. It is an AWESOME prop!!!! Even you may be able to appreciate the hard work that Wolf's Magic has put into their props....DO YOU have any of Wolf's Magic or you just like tearing peoples work apart? It sounds like you need a hug p.b..OH, now back to the topic...I prefer Run Wolf Run to Turbo Bunny....HEY p.b. do you have Turbo Bunny?
p.b.jones
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Do you also make magic? I looked at your website, It was hard to figure out if you build props too

Hi,
no I do not build props, what on my website made you think I did?
I do build my own rainbow houses but just for my own use from plastic as it wears better (stays looking good longer)all the comersial ones are made from wood and as the plastic houses and tube are a closer fit (you will understand if you have one) the magic is stronger.

"Even you may be able to appreciate the hard work that Wolf's Magic has put into their props....DO YOU have any of Wolf's Magic or you just like tearing peoples work apart?"

I do apreaciate the work that Chance has put into his items , are you saying that because he put in all that work that he and his props are beyond constuctive critism ? Yes I have his pocket french guilotine. But I do enjoy trying to make my material/effects as strong as possible whilst making them as entertaining as possible too... I do not really subscribe to the no one will notice subtltys group of opinion...

phillip
Wizzy
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Rogue clown you sound like you are of the school - great props make great tricks.

Wrong! A prop is merely a puzzle. You are the one that elevates a puzzle into trick (and if you are really good into a superb trick).

Let me refer you to page 39 in Ken Weber's Maximum Entertainment. It may change the way you look at others comments. Your critism of p.b.jones was not at all constructive.

Wizzy
Potty the Pirate
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I know I'm going to spark much controversy by saying this, but I do find this notion that it's the magician who "makes" a trick is taken too far. Of course, the performer would be well advised to work on his style, ability, patter, and so forth. But to imagine that the tricks, and the props included in a show, are just "puzzles", makes magicians out to be just toy demonstrators. Does this mean that a "real" magician would never use specially made props?
I have a large repertoire, and regularly see the same kids up to ten times a year. I find it essential, or at least highly desirable, to have new material for repeat performances. I simply don’t have enough “clever” sleight of hand tricks to fill ten hours of shows for every age. But I do have enough props and bits of business to make it possible. Folks often comment on the fact that every time they see me, the show is totally different. And every time I hold the kids’ attention no problem. As I’ve said before, I own most of Chance Wolf’s props, as well as many more collected over the years. In every show there are several things I always require. Strong opening effects, good audience participation items, “wow!” factor items, animation, a trick with Dad, one or two puppet routines, a BIG finale, and I’m sure to include at least two large props. Often these are Wolf props, though not always. These props elevate the show by providing colour, excitement, and originality. At least at the moment Wolf products are fairly exclusive, no one in my area has any (as far as I‘m aware).
For the seasoned performer, virtually ANY prop can work to provide laughs, and entertainment. I get a laugh just putting my coat on! I don’t have to invest in new props, I could go on holiday a couple more times each year if I didn’t. But I LOVE to have something new to work with. Big props also look great on my website and attract customers. The marketing value of Wolf’s props means they pay for themselves very quickly. And my Flying Carpet has made me thousands of pounds, as it’s an add-on, and folks pay extra for it.
Here are some “self-working” tricks that I use in my shows, they are ALL winners:
Funhouse, KaBlammo, Outhouse, ABC Gumball Recombobulator, Wacky Weasel, Chicken Sword, (and most of the rest of Wolf’s magic props), Flag-O-Matic and Magic Box (Barry Mitchell), Psychokinetic Bolt, In the News, Nielsen Ketchup vanish, Axtell’s Drawing Board, Flito Flower, Appearing Pole, Magic Mirror, Needle thru balloon, PB&J, Zig-Zag can, Healed & Sealed, ESP prediction board, the Amazing Sword Swallowing Feat, Flying Carpet.
There are lots more that could be added to this list. For me, the choice of tricks in a show is about audience impact. Skill level is irrelevant, it’s something that only magicians ever consider. Laymen can rarely tell a self-working trick from sleight-of-hand. A good trick is a good trick, period. If a rank amateur and a highly experienced pro were both to demonstrate “Coin Thru Rubber” for instance, both would easily fool their audience. But the pro would make it more showy, and engage his audience more, that’s all.
p.b.jones
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Laymen can rarely tell a self-working trick from sleight-of-hand. A good trick is a good trick, period. If a rank amateur and a highly experienced pro were both to demonstrate “Coin Thru Rubber” for instance, both would easily fool their audience. But the pro would make it more showy, and engage his audience more, that’s all.


Hi,
unfourtunately when making comparisons in this type of debate the defense of self working items (I have nothing particularly against them)is usually as above a slieght man with no personality compared with a quote "pro" who is apparently incompetent at slieght of hand magic but a real good performer what should be compared is two performers of equal entertainment levels. First I think that yous statement "Laymen can rarely tell a self-working trick from sleight-of-hand."
is very very debatable I personaly do not agree. However that aside I think that a entertaining performer wether using slieght of hand,selfworking or a balance of both would benifit by using effects which are highly entertaining and strong magicaly , there is enough magic out there that in my opinion to pick a large selection of effects for your show witch have weak effect magicialy is only letting your self down. (I am not implying that RWR or TURBO Bunny fall in this catagory this just happens to be where the point was raised.)but short changing you audience too.
Phillip
Potty the Pirate
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Phillip, don't imagine that I'm knocking real acts of skill, great manipulation acts are surely the pinnacle of the conjurer's art. A card fanning routine, a good miser's dream, silk manipulations, are real eye candy. They also take years to perfect. But as you imply, it's possible to have an act comprising entirely of self-working effects (for my younger shows, this is largely true, though I throw in a few wand twirls and palm the odd coin, etc.) RWR is one of these, I'm about to use mine first time today for a three-year old's party. I'm looking for maximum entertainment value, and my guess is the kids will go nuts for the naughty wolf!
When I made the comment about laymen not knowing sleight-of-hand from automatic props, I guess I was thinking about a kids show, and not close-up. No doubt, great skill at close-up is normally much more evident, since the miracles performed are SO incredible. Yet even in that field, many self-working effects seem like that too. Eg Chinese Bit by Eddie Gibson, do you know it? Try Spellbound (fairly easy, just one sleight), followed by Chinese Bit. Your audience will credit you with enormous skill, when really you only learned a few basic sleights.
p.b.jones
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Hi,
I was not really making an argument for slieghts but for strong magic effects wether they be self working or slieght of hand.

My personal contention is that an outstanding performance of a trick which is weak magicaly is bound to be inferior to a similarly outstanding performace of a trick whick is also magicaly outstanding. why would someone with the huge array of strong effects deliberately choose weak effects......... ?
Potty the Pirate
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"My personal contention is that an outstanding performance of a trick which is weak magicaly is bound to be inferior to a similarly outstanding performace of a trick whick is also magicaly outstanding. why would someone with the huge array of strong effects deliberately choose weak effects......... ?"
A trick which is "weak magically" to an adult is likely to be entrancing to a three year old. RRR is hardly the most magical trick in the World, yet it ranks as one of the most popular effects amongst 3-5 year olds. Lovey Duck (a variation of the same theme, similar to "At The Zoo" type effects) is a hugely popular effect for 3-5 year-olds. Likewise many "story" tricks are the favourites of 5-7 year-olds. It's only for the 7-10 year old group and above that every trick has to astonish.
revlovejoy
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Potty, tell me where you got the "self-working" healed and sealed. I have to do all the "work" when I do it. Smile
p.b.jones
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It's only for the 7-10 year old group and above that every trick has to astonish.

HI,
But just because it does not HAVE to astonish does not mean that it is not a good thing or indeed a further enhancement. Why settle for less than the best you can do just because its not essential? I personaly aim to exceed what is expected of me


Who ranked RRR as "one of the best effects amongst 3-5 year olds" ?
based on what hard facts?

I often think that these ratings are based on what plays best (easiest) for many magicians ... but this comes down to the effects they are showing the kids. the same old stuff , because its easy to go buy the prop make up a totaly stupid story and get a reasonable response. Often the reason this effect plays best is simply because the rest of the show is even less magical. 2 -31/2 ish I can see that they have no real understanding of magic as such and the impact is not really an issue. but once they are 4 ish I think it is an important element
Phillip
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