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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Lights...camera...action! » » Does low production quality bother you? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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oombob
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Platt... I completely dig what I have seen on "dropshots" and eagerly await the release of "Catapult!". I have always assumed from your avatar that you were approximately 367 years old.

To see a young and vital Platt performing in the video clips was almost as jaw dropping to me as your magic.

As far as production quality goes... I'm anticipating "dropshots" with explanations.

Perfect.
JTW
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Florida
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You opened a thread asking opinions. Your right I don't know you, the only knowledge I have of you are your posts and what you gave in this thread. My comments are based on that information.

I'm glad you make a lot of money in advertising, congratulations. Since that is your field how can you make the comments you make?

It seems that when someone raises a point that you don't like you shrug it off and the quality of this DVD gets better with every subsequent post.

You ask for "true opinions" and then you blast the person for giving you one.

How would a person who doesn't know you interpret your posts?

Maybe we got started on the wrong foot...

Here is a hypothetical situation:

You are to meet with a client who will, potentially, be marketing and distributing your product. They have never met you or seen your magic. The person is not a magician but is very familiar with this industry.

Would you show them the DVD making no comments such as you made here and would you dress the way you dress on the DVD for that meeting?

Could you explain your answer? Why you would or why you would not. Remember this is hypothetical so any hesitancy to answer based on apples and oranges is thrown out Smile .


Cheers,
Jason Wethington
Platt
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Jason,

Please read carefully. I work as a creative writer in advertising. The idea is what is important in advertising. Not the quality of the drawings on the storyboard. And certainly not what I'm wearing. So to answer your question, yes I would dress that exact same way. I'm an idea person so I respect others for their ideas. Not the gloss of the package they present it in. In fact the gloss turns me off. There's an old saying in my business: never work for anyone who can't see a brilliant idea scribbled on a cocktail napkin. Jason, you seem to be someone who needs that cocktail napkin ironed, mounted and framed. Perhaps sprayed with a hint of cologne. I respect that. I obviously don't agree with that philosophy. But I respect it.

What I don't respect is you attacking my integrity. You suggest I asked for true opinions and then blast people for giving them. I haven't blasted anyone for giving their opinion on the topic of this thread. In fact I've gone out of my way to let folks know I may disagree with it, but I respect it. If you attack my integrity and suggest I'm rushing a DVD out to cash in, I'm going to defend myself. That's not the topic. I didn't ask for a review of my integrity. Don't you see the difference Jason?

For you to write "I'm glad you make a lot of money in advertising" when I clearly stated my words were a commentary on profits in the world of magic, not my salary, tells me a lot about you, Jason. You clearly have a chip on your shoulder. Not sure why. Actually I have a pretty good idea why. But I'll keep that to myself.
Sugar Rush is here! Freakishly visual magic. http://www.plattmagic.com
oombob
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Quote:
On 2006-06-10 09:52, JTW wrote:

I hope you don't bring this product out it will not reflect well on you at all.



Well, one of my favourite magical instructional videos is Daniel Garcia's original basement tape of "Torn". The production values are terrible.... the content is sublime. To say 'I hope you don't bring this product out etc." is just plain silly.
Platt
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Hey, thanks for the support Oombob. It sounds like Jason is more than a bit bitter. I suppose I would be too if I put a year and a half (unbelievable!) into an instructional video production. From the reviews here, it sounds like he should have put that time into his material. The funny thing is, even with a year and a half production, it sounds like it still came out poorly. In addition to less than stellar material, it's supposedly missing video and cuts to black. Hmm? One person even said the tracking was way off throughout. WTF. I can't attest to this but I also read he speaks with an annoying fake British accent. (Did he sign off with "cheers" above?)

Anyway, I don't know Jason and I've never seen his DVD, so I'll refrain making any judgements. It does sound like he could learn from classic Sankey videos shot in one day. Or perhaps movies like "In the Company of Men" shot in two weeks.

Cheers,

Platt
Sugar Rush is here! Freakishly visual magic. http://www.plattmagic.com
JTW
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Thanks for the personal attack Platt I forgive you.

I thought maybe we got off on the wrong foot and said as much but I see that there is still quite a bit of animosity.

What you commented about happening with my DVD was true: there were problems in the finalization process and those were addressed and everyone was made happy. I did take responsibility for it because my name is on the packaging, although I didn't have anything to do with that part of the process.

Yes a year and a half is a long time, while we were in post we had 3 hurricanes hit central Florida and many of our computers at our facility were destroyed, unfortunate and unavoidable. We lost over half of the footage.

As for the accent, yes I use one because of a character I use. As for being annoying and fake I have no comment. You can form your own opinion and I respect that.

If you care to read a comprehensive review of the DVD go to Dan Watkins' site @ http://www.coinvanish.com

You made the comment about your salary and (you didn't mention you were a writer) I congratulated you on it no ill feelings on my end, perhaps it came off rude when you read it but I certainly din't mean it that way my apologies to you for the mis-understanding (after re-reading that sentence you were completely in the right to interpret it the way you did) . I felt that since you said you did well in advertising you would understand my point of view.

I didn't attack your integrity.

I made an assumption based on information you submitted in this thread. You made clear that you had learned certain things about production, you also stated that you had concerns, specifically, about your dress turning some people (and shops) away. It seemed to me that you had not gone back and fixed what you saw were short comings in the production. I made a statement that reflected how I would interpret those actions. I also stated that it might come off as harsh but that it was only an (my) interpretation. I'm sorry you are so devensive about this subject and there may have been more mis-understanding going on in this situation as well.


I don't mind an idea being put onto a napkin. If I were submitting something to a potential client I would want the idea represented in the best light possible. Again that is only my opinion on the matter. You are free to do whatever you want and I hope you have great luck with your project I really do.

Cheers,
Jason
ScottRSullivan
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Good evening all.

I returned to this thread after being in Philly for the weekend on a video shoot (a second volume for an upcoming DVD for several performers). When I returned, I noticed how verbose this thread had gotten!

Perhaps it might benefit everyone if we looked at the issue with reborn eyes. Mr. Platt, initially you begain this thread asking for an opinion on inconsistent lighting, uneven backdrop, occasional echo, etc. (I had to go back and look it up!)

You also appear to be a gentleman with both a depth of knowledge and wisdom. The former for producing your ideas onto a video. The latter for having the courage to ask for advice. You also seem to have the heart of a lion for the amount of critiques given (my own, inclusive). Bravo. I only wish more magicians would follow your lead and focus energy on the creative side. That is, after all, one of the many things magic is all about.

At the risk of diverting the current discussion, may I respectfully hijack this thread? Specifically, I would like to offer just a few small ideas. Mr. Platt, these are not aimed at you. Your brave request simply allowed me to answer in the rhetoric.

These are inexpensive, easy ways to convey your original magical creative content (known from here on in as a magic video) in a more effective and less distracting way:

**** Video Tips I Learned in Kindergarten (Let's all just pretend we're that age)

1. Speak up Mr. Sullivan. When I can't hear instructions correctly, I tend to daydream. Remember your one teacher you couldn't hear because he/she was such a quiet speaker? I passed notes and scribbled pictures in the margins. Video solution: Place a microphone close to the speaker.

2. Turn the chairs away from the window. When it's a nice day outside, I would daydream and pay attention to the trucks passing by. Sometimes I would pretend I could fly. Video solution: Get rid of distractions in the frame like windows, moving shadows, a moving fan, etc. Only include what furthers the magic.

3. Don't draw funny pictures of the teacher. I remember one teacher who only had one dress shirt (or a few, but they all looked the same). They all (or the one) had sweat stains under his arms. Eeewww! Another teacher had really heavy eyeliner. And the one... the burned out light above his desk made the light next to him shine on his face funny. He looked like a scary man. Video solution: make sure you're evenly lit. Aside from making you look good, it also helps show better details when explaining how to palm a coin in JW grip. Shadows hide details, making it harder to learn.

These are just three examples I could think of. Like I said, they are not directly aimed at anyone. I do look forward to seeing your video when it comes out, Mr. Platt. Mr. Wethington, I'm sorry to hear about your losses during the weather last year. I used to live in Daytona, but never had to live through what you did. I wish you the best in your future projects as well.

Warm regards,
Scott Sullivan
Dan Watkins
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Platt, the short answer is high production quality is always perferable to low production quality. Low quality is a negative regardless of how good the material is and some will be put off by it. Personally however, production quality is secondary to the actual material.

People would always take a product with good matieral and a high production value over a product with good material and low production value.

It does not mean that you can't put a good homebrew video out with good info on it, all things constant, that exact same video shot in a professional studio is a better product, no way to argue otherwise. I bet however if you did a lecture and people loved the material and you had two DVDs for sale of the same material, one professionally shot with super clairty, sound, lighting, professionally replicated, nicely packaged for $35 or a homebrew with a camcorder, okay lighting, using the camcorder mic, packaged in a CD Jewel case with a DVD-R for $25, half would buy the homebrew, half would buy the professional one. Some want the quality to go with the material, some would rather a more affordable way to get the material. But here there is a monetary incentive.

I love my wife very much, but she looks better in an evening dress all made up ready for a night out than she does wearing some old baggy PJ's in the morning. Same quality girl, different presentation Smile

Here is a key issue however...

Good production values will improve a product with good material.

But if someone has bad material, production values do not matter as much, bad is bad no matter how you wrap it.
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oombob
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Quote:
On 2006-06-12 19:51, Dan Watkins wrote:

I love my wife very much, but she looks better in an evening dress all made up ready for a night out than she does wearing some old baggy PJ's in the morning. Same quality girl, different presentation Smile

Here is a key issue however...

Good production values will improve a product with good material.

But if someone has bad material, production values do not matter as much, bad is bad no matter how you wrap it.


Perfectly put Dan. ( My wife still looks hot in baggy pajamas though.)
Tyler
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I agree with Dan and oombob.... your wives look great in an evening dress <whistle here> Tell them I'll be by to pick them up around 1:00am ... after you guys have gone to sleep. LOL Seriously, I agree with Dan. I forget who said this but "the medium is the message." Simply, how you say something is as important as the information your trying to convey. Nothing wrong with low-tech, edgy if that is your style. Make sure you stick with it throughout if that's the case. But you still need to be heard and seen clearly...and the moves and techniques need to be lit and shot in such a way that you can see what you are demonstrating...especially if the sleights are new. Your DVD seems to be a labor of love and not money motivated and if your audience is the professional magician you might be ok.
It sounds like your original concerns was with distribution to magic shops willing to carry your DVD. I'd consider threading a few You-Tubes from sites like this with actual clips from your DVD. Consumer would know what they were getting. Best of luck from someone who knows how much WORK even 10 minutes of a production takes. I hope you and others benefit from your hard work!
magicmind
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Quote:
On 2006-06-07 19:47, ScottRSullivan wrote:
Very eloquent. "Their" <sic> also becoming more popular and the production quality as a whole are lowering each year. I fail to understand the idea of lowering a bar instead of raising it. Standards should rise each year, not fall.

Ad astra per aspera,
Scott


I agree somewhat with this... Noticed this: quality lowers, but prices do not reflect this. I mean a 30 min teach a trick taught off of the couch for $25, as opposed to a $45 1 hour in front of a back drop w/ proper sound and lighting.

If the material is 1st rate, I can over look the couch, as long as I can see and hear (distractions or not) for this I would expect to pay about $30 for an hour. If this stuff was couch/youtube/home spun stuff that was nothing 1st rate....$25 for 30 minutes is WAY to much.

Platt, yours is 1st rate...although I have not bought it yet.
Pay it forward and remember karma will take it from there
Tony Iacoviello
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Platt:

When this thread started, a wise man said:
<In short, if the material is good, it will find its market, regardless of the production quality, as long as it is clear and easy to understand. >

Having been one of tghe many to purchase your DVD set, let me say, that guy was right. Your DVD is excellent, not because of production value, but for quality material. (Although the lightning bolt to the head effect was cute.)

I'm not the only one who feels this way, every person that has commented on your product has been positive. I guess your question is answered.

Tony
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