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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Magic names and the media » » Criss Angel is stoogerific! (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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The Drake
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Agreed...A&E is happy. Now I'm just waiting for the copycats. These shows are so easily and cheaply done that other networks will surely copy it's success. Before you know it... every television illusionist/performer will be teleporting to the moon or morphing into monkeys...oh..its gonna get magical! LOL

Best,

Tim
bitterman
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I'd love to see Jason Alexander (a known mentalist) do a show.
If you are not cheating, you are only cheating yourself.

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bobbyk
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Look, if anyone can deliver a higher quality show and get the numbers Criss is getting... lets get it done! I would love to see an even better show, which would draw even higher numbers..

Tim, I very much enjoyed your sharing that old video clip. Very fun to watch. However, I do think that Criss and David Blaine both have introduced some new thinking in presentation and probably in methods. I say probably, because I don't claim to know all the methods used.

inidyls, there's no doubt that A&E put some spin on CA's numbers to present them in the most positive light. Just like you did to counter.. when you mention the number of TV's in housholds...Your number includes TV's that aren't EVEN TURNED ON. Then to compare an A&E Wednesday show to HBO's Sopranos numbers....
The point is, both sides can argue numbers and what they mean. However, If Banacheks post is correct, the show doubled numbers from last year. 2.3 million people saw it. You can say it's not a lot.... but I am delighted it's seeing this kind of success. I hope he can continue the growth pattern.

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Bobby
The Drake
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Bobby,

Respectively... can you elaborate on the new stuff you're talking about. I'm not quite getting that part. The only new part I see is using digital effects editing to accomplish effects that can't be done live.

Glad you enjoyed the clip.

My concern as mentioned before is what comes next. I think its obvious that Chris is feeling the pinch to top the last effect or meet a deadline and its showing. Check out how sloppy this effect is. The editor actually allowed the method to be somewhat exposed in the clip. Check this out and watch the guy run away with the stick after the vanish. You'll be able to figure out what the stick was for right away. Sloppy , Sloppy. The effect could have been much cleaner with a man standing a few feet away with a cane. He wouldn't have had to flee the camera and get caught running. I didn't notice this but viewers on You Tube pointed it out. Eventually all television magic will be regarded as camera trickery.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRR30Tll6......%20angel

Best,

Tim
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Tim, I think we all can learn one thing from the comments on that video: Never underestimate an audience...they know a lot more than we often give them credit for. If we never underestimate the people we are designing and performing for, we will always be a step ahead.

Nick Fox
"Obscuring Reality"- Gone but not forgotten...

FoxIllusions.com
bobbyk
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Tim,

I had to watch the clip a couple times but did see it and get the point. However, I think his choice of Spectator outweighs this editing error Smile

What I meant is that prior to David and Criss I don't recall seeing their presentation styles on television and reaching such a wide audience. To me, it introduced a new style of performance to the audience... Not the traditional idea of a Magic performance. It appears to be one that the public likes and I think that's a good thing. Regarding new methods, I don't have any idea of knowing except that Criss "claims" to be introducing some new methods and thinking behind some of the effects. He stated so in an interview. Is he just misleading us? Maybe so... but I'll take him at his word for now.

I don't tend to think these shows will lead us down the path you are suggesting...but time will tell. I certainly respect your view on it and I truly hope you are mistaken Smile

I can't help it... I like the show and I'm a fan. Contrary to some posts here, the laypeople that have brought Davis & Criss' name up have been very positive about it... and not once did "camera tricks", editing etc come up. Not to say that it couldn't in the future...but unless it just gets crazy, I don't see that really becoming an issue. I hope not anyway....

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Bobby
The Drake
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Hi Bobby,

I definitely see audience burn out in the future as more and more "Tv Magician " wanna bees want to become the next starwars kid on the net. Eventually it will run its course and then become "old". There will be lots of copys online with some good and some cheezy effects and maybe eventually some copies popping up on yet another network. Networks..never copy other networks successful ideas..do they? LOL

Actually....Chris did exactly this... he out-Blained Blaine. This may happen to him as well but maybe not if the bubble bursts first. Regardless...when it does burst..both Blaine and Angel will have risen high in the public eye and gotten rich in the process so Kudos to them for doing it first.

Regarding your statement on the original performance style. You are most correct here. Doug Henning brought a hippy look to a tux weary magic audience and broke new ground. Many others have been original and done the same thing. Blaine and Angel are in this group and do deserve high marks for breaking the traditional barriers again.

As as side note ...I'd like to point out that a friend of mine appeared on a morning television show recently and did some great coin sleight. His normal routine was cut short ... when the first part of the effect happened the tv host started to ooh and ahh and rant and rave about how the coin vanished. He went on and on and drowned out my friends patter for the rest of his routine where the coin was to reappear. I'm wondering if the host thought he needed to mimic magic stooges he has seen on tv recently. Maybe not but its possible.

BTW... nice to discuss this topic without flames. Thanks!

Best,

Tim
The Drake
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Magic Socks!

For those interested in camera edits passed as live magic you might enjoy this clip of Robert Gallup doing a death defying stunt. He jumps from a plane with black socks, makes his escape and lands with white socks! Now that's a trick.

http://www.yourdailymedia.com/media/1150......His_Life

Not dissing this guy...I think the rest of the show was real performance. I don't mind...SOME camera help. Still...its funny.

Best,

Tim
Xpilot
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Quote:
He's always been on the cutting edge... especially his sub trunk without a cloth handling. He uses a pyro to cover the switch.


I saw him use pyro to cover the switch on a TV special a few years ago. When I saw his live show in NYC (after the TV special) he had fire extinguishers in the ceiling spray (whatever's in fire extinguishers) down to cover the trunk. Still not bad, but a lot more cover and more time in the cover than with the pyro.
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My feeling, when I saw his metamorphosis, was that it was from a promotional DVD to hype his New York show. I think most working magician's knew on the spot that he needed more cover.
POOF!
Khopri
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I think underestimating the audience has become a crutch for delivering magic quickly and with little practice. I have said that if CGI were used to the point that it could not be detected that this was OK, but obvious camera tricks are easily picked up by smart audience members.

And I agree that more people are going to suspect camera tricks if the presentation is not 100% solid. The smart magician that wants to cash in on this should start illustrating during their presentations that there are no camera tricks used for whatever illusion they are doing. Even Criss should start pointing this out. (even if there ARE camera tricks used)
Khopri
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Timothy - I just checked out that Robert Gallup escape. That was pretty funny! Of course, they could just explain it away by saying that the footage they shot of him being shackled while on the plane was bad so they needed to re-shoot that part again. But pretty glaringly obvious!
The Drake
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Quote:
On 2006-06-15 10:55, Khopri wrote:
I think underestimating the audience has become a crutch for delivering magic quickly and with little practice. I have said that if CGI were used to the point that it could not be detected that this was OK, but obvious camera tricks are easily picked up by smart audience members.

The smart magician that wants to cash in on this should start illustrating during their presentations that there are no camera tricks used for whatever illusion they are doing. Even Criss should start pointing this out. (even if there ARE camera tricks used)


Khopri,

You make an excellent point. How long will it be until we do see the limits stretched to include CGI ? Will Chris or someone else vanish a body part without any cover? Remove his head and hold it in his hands as he walks the streets of Vegas??? More importantly...will the public buy it? I'd say "no" but they've been buying an awful lot of stuff I never would have thought they would.

To Chris's credit..he never opened a show with the " there are no camera tricks" line did he? I only watched the first show so I can't say much about the others but I think that's the case. It may be because he wants to be able to say... " I didn't say it wasn't camera tricks but you came to your own conclusion " ..OR it may be an FCC thing where he isn't allowed to openly lie about it.

Best,

Tim
MaGiCaL_pRoDiGy
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Hey you guys, my friends and I were trying to figure out how Criss did a few of his tricks a little while ago. I brought up the idea of stooges, and said that he uses them for quite a lot of his "illusions". And believe it or not, they completely rejected that idea. Of course most of us here do realize that he uses stooges.... but my friends don't. Are there any ways of convincing them otherwise? Or should I just leave them wondering?
Pete Biro
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It is a SHOW... Wait til you see his live shows!
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Xpilot
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Quote:
Of course most of us here do realize that he uses stooges.... but my friends don't. Are there any ways of convincing them otherwise? Or should I just leave them wondering?


Why would you want to convince them otherwise? If they see a magician and don't think he's using a TT, or a key ring, or gimmicked cards would you want to convince your them otherwise?
MaGiCaL_pRoDiGy
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By bringing up the idea of stooges, they had the impression that I'm not smart enough to think of another way to do the trick.....
Khopri
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Chances are, this season is probably already in the can, but you could get involved with the fan club and find out when he will be taping his next show, then stand in the audience and judge for yourself.

There are some illusions presented that demand the use of someone being "in on it." There's no other way around it.
John Tudor
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These Angel discussions always remind me of a conversation I heard at one of the first magic club meetings I ever attended- The Magic Show had just opened on Broadway, and the man (whose name I don't recall) was totally against it. He was dammning Doug Henning personally, because "he wears BLUE JEANS onstage, for God's sake!"
There were shocked responses and shaking heads all around.
It must have seemed to be the END of the art to him, which it was, but only as he knew it at the time. We see now that Doug was actually a huge turning point in the evolution of magic.
Time will tell what Criss' place in magic's evolution is...
"Ars longa, vita brevis." (Life is short, the art so long to learn) -Hippocrates
Jazz
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If I go to see Harry Potter, I know I will see special efects, and know that is it. But when watching a magic show, I tend to assume that there are no Special effects, CGI or camera gafs.

As said before, in most of the illusions some people have to be on it for it to work. Of course, like the vanishings and sawings. But come on, don't try to fool the audience by saying explicitly that they are not.

And the camera edits are killling many of the illusions. Like the one with the surrounded vanish. It was not necessary to do it, yet they did. Yes, audiences are getting smarter every time
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