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Eyes of Darkness Regular user 137 Posts |
How do you feel about performing at an event for an organization whose political agenda/message severely conflicts with your own personal beliefs? For example, I know a lot of performers who are atheist yet they still do shows for the Boy Scouts of America (BSA forbids homosexuals and atheists from joining their group). BSA events are often sponsored by local churches. This thought came to mind last week after I got an offer to appear at a local PETA sponsored event. I turned down the gig because I severely disagree with PETA’s terrorist “tactics” and felt that if I had appeared at the event, I would been endorsing PETA’s agendas/message. Any thoughts?
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Dave V Inner circle Las Vegas, NV 4824 Posts |
This is a touchy topic. Since you're relatively new here I have to tell you the last time we had this exact same discussion it was locked and eventually disappeared entirely. Each person seems to bring with them their own personal beliefs about these groups, and we have people on both sides.
If you watch your step, and speak carefully, maybe we'll get through it this time.
No trees were killed in the making of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
Well just for sake argument let's invent a name to avoid personal beliefs, lets say the X group is evil. Now would you perform magic if employed by the X group?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
Without stating the name of any particular group, I will say that I have turned down work from various groups that I had major moral or philosophical differences with. I certainly wouldn't represent a company whose practices I disagreed with at a trade show.
I wouldn't tell anyone they should feel morally compelled to do the same thing, though. If I had a friend who was working (as a magician) for a company that had some kind of business practice that was (to me) obviously immoral, I might ask him privately why he chose to work for this particular group. I'm not an attorney. I'm a magician. I'm not under any obligation to take anyone's show in the same way that an attorney might be obliged to take someone's case. There is no constitutional "right to a magician." But I would not tell any potential client that I wouldn't work for them because of their beliefs or practices. I would simply be otherwise employed and unable to take the booking. This would leave them no grounds for a potential lawsuit. There is a legal basis (I believe) for not taking shows of certain types. A few yeare back, there was some legislation that made celebrity endorsers of certain prodcuts partially liable for problems caused by products they endorsed.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
Why should I work for people I detest for some reason? I would see it as collaborating with the enemy if I did. So I agree with Bill. However I might do a performance of magic just to show them up. For example if X group were prejudiced against Y I might do something to prove them wrong but that would be difficult because X would just say it was a trick or a lie so to speak.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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JackScratch Inner circle 2151 Posts |
For me, it depends on how much of my life is dedicated to the oposition of such a group. I have a personal hatred of the two party system in the US, that wouldn't stop me from presenting a spectacular performance for either or both of them. On the other hand, a group like the hypothetical ones mentioned, who engaged in acts I completely disaprove of, I wouldn't wish to contribute to their success what so ever.
On a side note. The thought might be presented that one might wish to take the job and "make them look bad". This would be a mistake most grave. If one takes a contract, one should always do ones upmost to fullfill that contract to the best of ones abilities. Never ever ever do a bad job. |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Another school of thought would have you working for them to get their money and doing routines at those shows which offer metaphorical and visual cues to those attending that suggest ways of behaving which are more along the lines of what you would prefer their company to do instead of the acts you find offensive.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
I was once sent by a booking agent to audition for a show for a chemical company. I was doing ventriloquism as a sideline, and they wanted a vent. So I brought along my big rabbit puppet. When I walked through the front door of the company, the name didn't ring a bell, but when they introduced me to the executives, I knew exactly what it was it was Hooker chemical, a subsidiary of the company. They wanted a spokesman who would try to put a shine on the face of the Love Canal controversy after the cleanup.
I couldn't take the gig. Not in a million years. But I couldn't refuse to audition, because the agent would never send me out again. The rabbit saved my day. He said, "So, Bill, let me get this straight. These people want me to say nice things about a Hooker with a polluted Love Canal?" I took advantage of the fact that most people, even very intelligent ones, will feel somehow that it's the puppet that makes the comment and not the operator. They asked me if I knew anyone with "a more conservative puppet." I recommended a friend who was a better vent, anyway.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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George Ledo Magic Café Columnist SF Bay Area 3042 Posts |
This is no different than choosing who you do business with in any other walk of life. I will not use a specific local supermarket any more, have stopped going to one branch of my bank, will not buy a computer from a certain company, and refuse to fly on a particular airline. I have also turned down design jobs from theater companies for specific business reasons. But I don't have to make an issue of it -- I just go elsewhere.
You're an entertainer. Your job is to entertain, not to make value judgments about your customers. Like Bill said, if you don't want to take the job, just keep it professional.
That's our departed buddy Burt, aka The Great Burtini, doing his famous Cups and Mice routine
www.georgefledo.net Latest column: "Sorry about the photos in my posts here" |
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RandyStewart Inner circle Texas (USA) 1989 Posts |
Growing up in my father's business, I had an early tendency to go anywhere and do anything to get the $. When my father told me there was plenty of money for everyone involved, he not only addressed greed but who you do and don't do business with. I didn't get it for a while until he flat out said "The red light district is not the only place you can be w**re"...
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kregg Inner circle 1950 Posts |
Entertainer's of late have shown their lack of judgment regarding this very topic and it's costing them. If you have a objection's toward certain views, a polite "no I am booked on those days" will do. Don't salt your tea, honey is better.
POOF!
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airship Inner circle In my day, I have driven 1594 Posts |
Ask yourself if you would do a show for the Ku Klux Klan, or the Nazis, or someone at that far, far end of the spectrum. Now ask yourself if you would do a show for a group you disagree with only slightly, like, say, the Great Books Club (pompous *****, right?). Keep asking yourself this question from both sides, making the high end a little less objectionable and the low end a little more objectionable until you reach your 'comfort zone'. Then you can say to yourself something along the lines of, "I'll perform for the Libertarians and the Unitarians, and those who are similarly or less objectionable than that - but not more."
This is, by the way, an area where Christian magicians have it much easier - if they can't present the Gospel message, they just won't go. But then, they're not in it for the money.
'The central secret of conjuring is a manipulation of interest.' - Henry Hay
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
I have no problem with someone who is a person of conviction. I do have a big problem with phonies.
During the Great Folk Music Scare of the 1960's, I was an active entertainer. I stayed clear of politics. It's not my game. Most of us felt that Joan Baez was simply trying for publicity with some of her stunts. So she acquired the name "Joanie Phoney" because of her attitudes. Al Capp did a parody of her in Lil' Abner. He had a blonde, statuesque character named "Joanie Phoanie" who wanted to adopt Honest Abe so she could have an extra tax deduction. Baez went ballistic. She wanted Capps to be taken out of the comic strips. His reply to her was that both of them were in the same business -- the protest business. If he couldn't protest, then she would lose the right as well. Then he added that he was under the impression that Ms. Baez was a rather slight, dark woman and Ms. Phoanie was a rather statuesque blonde. Any resemblance she saw was completely coincidental. Baez shut up. Recently, she revealed that she had jumped on the protest bandwagon, because she wanted publicity.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-06-16 13:27, airship wrote: Their organization was the National Socialist German Worker's Party. And perhaps entertaining them with something less racist and angry might get them away from unproductive blame based thinking.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
Like opera or Classical music?
I don't think so. Just make you a happier racist. Changing a person's extreme belief system is a pretty tall order for a one-shot performance of magic. The pleasure they feel from your performance will only confirm their feelings of correctness. To thine own self be true . . . Or . . . take the money and use it subversively . . . That's one of the options Bernard Shaw offers in Arms and the Man. Jack Shalom
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
Entertaining the NSDAP with opera and classical music only made them more pompous racists.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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RandyStewart Inner circle Texas (USA) 1989 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-06-16 18:09, Bill Palmer wrote: True. Very true. I think Multiplying Sponge rabbits, a hug, starring square in the eye, and a sincere "I LOVE YOU" would of brought some of them around. |
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
Those sponge bunnies would do it every time.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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kregg Inner circle 1950 Posts |
So, doves with fire pans and arm chopper's would've sent the wrong message?
POOF!
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-06-16 17:21, landmark wrote: Hmm ... I made an edit that didn't take. It's Major Barbara I'm thinking of. Funny and thought provoking with an undecided outcome--Salvation Army gal can't decide whether to take Munitions money. Eventually she runs the munitions company herself--and then has another change of heart. Jack Shalom
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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