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Cory Gallupe
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Dannydoyle, I don't want to disagree with you, but I don't really see where I am flipping out. Maybe it's a miscommunication, considering we are not talking in person, and we are only typing. Lots can get mixed up. But, I don't want you guys to think I'm mad or anything like that. Sure, I'm a little sad, let down, considering that the last 2 years of practicing, perfecting, testing on people, (Which was the fun part of all that work.) has been an apparent waste. It may seem weird, but when you suddenly find out that you just wasted the past 2 years of your life, it really puts you down. I feel like a bag of the stuff that you put in the toilet. I am honestly down in the dumps. Not just because of this, but many other magic, and non-magic related things. Stuff has REALLY not been working out for me. But that's a part of life. Call this whining and crying, but its what I feel.
Anyway, I'm sorry for any miscommunications.
Please don't argue over this post.
And thank you guys for whatever help you have given me. (Thats assuming most of you guys are trying to help, and not put down a young magi that could potentially do whatever it is you guys worry about.)
Till another argument comes up about this post, cya later. Smile
(C'mon, lets have some light heartedness shall we?)
mc_magi
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Quote:

Ok, I thank everybody for the help, but I wont do restaurants, ok? I'll just sit and practice for hours and hours in front of a mirror, and pretend I'm a pro. That sounds good. Hey, if I'm lucky, maybe I should flip burgers at McDonalds...
Wow, I think Im getting somewhere.
But I will stop. Thank you, and good day.



I call this .. and many other posts as flipping out.
I think the number one factor which shows that you are not ready to perform for public is that you cannot take any criticism. You cannot take advices of others that aren't given in "awwwwww we feel so sorry that you can't get experiences." format.

No one heres going to spoonfeed you. As Dannydoyle pointed out, what are you going to do when you are told down by managers? Mouth them off? Be sarcastic? What are you going to do with 20 year old guy that tells you that you suck @(*&@(#$*%&( ? THAT's why, at least for me, I don't think you are ready to perform at a mental level. Not at all.

Sure getting experience is nice. But you want to do that without putting on bad name for the restaurant.Thats why you can't get hired.
Cory Gallupe
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What I am trying to do is slow this thread down to a stop. It hasn't really been much of an argument as it has been a "Let's put this kid down" type thing. So, I want this forum, the magic Café, to be what it is meant to be. "Magicians helping magicians"
So, lets stop this thread, and keep it cool. Relax everyone, enjoy life. Smile
RobertBloor
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Reading this thread has caused me to begin consuming a very large bottle of rum, well, what was left of the large bottle...and now I believe I am ever so prepared to offer reply...

Regarding Cory - dude - you'll learn along the way. You can't always "pick" what restaraunt you want to work. I personally would LOVE to work at Coyote Ugly in Vegas...but I doubt a magician would do ANYTHING for them. Don't worry. Don't panic. And don't get upset. Dude life happens real fast. But what happens during that time is up to you. Good luck with it. PS: If you take no other bit of advice in your entire LIFE...take this piece...TRY. Even if you fail...you fail by TRYING. And for what it's worth - TRYING will put you a million years ahead of many of those who will offer advice in your life.

And for the rest of the thread...

I'm just a bit at a loss for some of what I'm reading. I think much of it is meant in good spirit, but I can tell from some of the advice given that there are as many "professional amateurs" giving advice in this thread as there is, bad advice. Funny how the two usually coincide.

So let me take a shot at this litmus test...

1) How are you going to brief the staff on what you do?
A) The manager lets them know and B) I introduce myself. Tell them I'm doing some magic tonight. (really not rocket science)

2) How will you handle the grabbers?
Grabbers? What is this - junior high? Who has grabbers?
Maybe I just handle my tables better, but I never have grabbers. Everything is done in my hands, and I only get their hands involved if, as an example, they're signing their name on a card.


3) How will you handle a drunken woman who comes on to you? (and it WILL happen eventually and she will NOT take NO for an answer)
Oh my God. As stunning looking as everyone in this thread is, is this really a problem? For the love of everything magic, if someone is acting inappropriately you walk away and perform somewhere else. Maybe it is rocket science?

4) What do you do when one of the wait staff spills the guest's food all over you? (and it will happen)
I'll let you know when it happens. (Maybe this is the sign of a "pro"?)

5) How will you handle the top three most asked questions - Can you make my wife disappear? Can you make the check disappear? Can you turn this $1 bill into a $100?
Yes I can make your wife disappear. She's hot. I bet she'd love to see a trick with my magic wand. IS THE QUESTION FOR REAL? You do what any real pro does - accept that these questions come with the territory, give a chuckle and smile.

6) How will you handle it when a guest tells you to "Get the (*^# away from my (insert relationship here)!"?
If it came to that - YOU got too close. That can't happen to the pro who UNDERSTANDS how to APPROACH a table. In all my years I've had 2 guys I could tell were irritated...I finished the trick, wished them a pleasent evening and left. Maybe it's more than rocket science.

7) How will you deal with the guest who says that you are doing the devil's work and starts to preach to the entire restaurant?
Learn to approach a friggen table in an unthreatening and "non magical" manner. (drinks the last of the rum...)

8) How will you handle the table full of older teens who insist on shouting out how each trick you do is done?
*sigh* See answer to number 7. The performer shouldn't have been there in the first place.

9) What will you do when one of the wait staff repeatedly breaks in on your performance?
Let them. They have a RIGHT to be at that table. The performers is only a privelage.

10) What will you do when everyone at a table is enjoying what you do except for one person who has their back turned to you and refuses to watch?
I'm going to play in traffic now.

Quote:
LeeDarrow: These are all things a restaurant worker will run in to and should be prepared to deal with. And, to be honest, I'd like to see the feedback not only from our younger members on this, but also from some of my fellow curmudgeons when the younger members have taken a swipe at them, too.


I'd love to hear your crack at this litmus test, Lee. Sounds like you've got a thing or two in mind.

Quote:
Dannydoyle: A performer will in no way help the bottom line in a way that can be pointed to on a spread sheet. Too many intangibles.


I've seen you mention this before.

It's flat out wrong. "YOU" may not be able to help the bottom line (that's up to you), but "a performer" (in this case, me, and many others) CAN help the bottom line...with visible, tangeable results. (Please don't take that as a cheap shot Danny. There is a REAL, true way to make more money for a restaurant. PM me if you'd like to know more)

So now that the rum is gone, here's the basic idea...

On young performers...EVERYBODY starts somewhere. Some are great and excel. Others are just ordinary. Some suck a big fat one. It's not our job to say. It's their job to find out.

On advice... Baz Luhrman said it best...Be careful whose advice you buy, but, be patient with those who supply it. Advice is a form of nostalgia, dispensing it is a way of fishing the past from the disposal, wiping it off, painting over the ugly parts and recycling it for more than it’s worth.

...why is the rum always gone?

Robert Bloor
"That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government,"
-The Declaration of Independence
Dannydoyle
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Forget the PM Robert, show us here.

YOU CAN'T DO IT IN A TANGIBLE WAY.

IF so do it for us here and not in PM. I am not interested in your making unsubstantiated remarks and then trying to prove them in private. That is playing tennis with the net down.

I OWNED a restaurant. Show me on my spread sheets monthly where YOU are going to be a definite tangible bottom line number which is higher ONLY because of you and not attributable to weather, funerals, or any other big reason for lack or raise in business.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
RicHeka
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Robert:I hope it isn't Ronrico 151 you are swigging.Sounds like it. Smile Smile
RobertBloor
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Quote:
Danny: I OWNED a restaurant. Show me on my spread sheets monthly where YOU are going to be a definite tangible bottom line number which is higher ONLY because of you and not attributable to weather, funerals, or any other big reason for lack or raise in business.


Owned. Past tense?

The fact that you "owned" (past tense), a restaurant and can't and/or haven't seen an increase for your bottom line is your problem. It doesn't mean it can't be done.

Quote:
Danny: Jonathan maybe he is not entitled to the information. Did you ever think of that? Maybe he is asking for info that is over his head.


Maybe he isn't the only one. My apologies for the offer.

Robert Bloor

..."those convinced against their will are of the same opinion still."
"That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government,"
-The Declaration of Independence
mc_magi
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With acknowledgement that I should probably not be giving advices out for restaurant works, I am repeating what I've read so. However, I don't think there has been that many "professional amatuers" in this thread Robert. Large portion of what I said was about general stuff and from my limited knowledge.
Also you show an inconsistency.

You said repeatedly (to paraphrase-tell me if I'm wrong) that everyone has to start somewhere right? That was the idea right? Then shouldn't they MAKE those mistakes until they BECOME professionals? Lee never said that he ran into these everyday. He asked these because any person who WANTS to become professional should worry about. You can't go off being - Oh I'll be pro and not GET INTO those situations. That contradicts "everyone starts somewhere".

Whelp, but who am I to argue with a true professional? I'm just an immature amateurish teenager. (and I'm sincere when I say that I am an amatuer so take out any sarcasm involved here).
Dannydoyle
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Robert past tence for I sold the place for a huge profit a year after purchase. Nothing to do with good business sence mind you, simply good fortune on my part. I wish I could brag about the profit was my seeing the future when I bought it. But indeed developers wanted it a year after I bought, so I took the money and ran.

Set me up to do what I do now.

Really has nothing to do with you making ludicris statements you can't begin to back up.

So for the education of all those reading tell us how in a "tangible" way you can show a "definate" profit consistantly because of your presance.

NOT things like "well 10 people came in because of me". NOT "well look at the comment cards". You said you can show on a spread sheet how you increase profits. that I couldn't (which implies naturally I and anyone who agrees is somehow inferrior), but you could.

So go ahead and do it. Or perhaps you can't back up the claim.

Hey man I can make a restaurant a million dollars in profit in a year, I am just not gonna tell you how. See I can make claims I can't back up too.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
JohnCressman
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Quote:
On 2006-06-18 11:31, Cory Gallupe wrote:
And, I don't think it matters what age the person is. As long as they are good, have experience, and a lot of knowledge, I think you can call yourself a magician. I don't think it matters if you are 5 years old. If you are good enough to be called a magician, I don't think it matters what age you are, you can be called a magician.


Sorry to say, you are dead wrong. Magic is about perception. It's not only about how people perceive your slights, etc., but how they perceive YOU. It's a matter of expectations.

For instance, using the doctor analagy. No matter how good a doctor is, if he is young, he is PERCEIVED as being inexperienced. That's initial perception. It's psychology. Young = Inexperienced. So immediately, your credibility as a "magician" will be questioned. It's not neccessarily a bad thing, but it IS something that will happen and something you will need to deal with.

Our appearance as a magician tells ALOT about us, before we even open our mouths. Our dress and personal grooming can tell people whether we are successful or not. In fact, I noticed that I wasn't getting any tips when I drove around in my newer SUV. As soon as I bought an old junker to save on gas (a little Neon), I started getting tips almost every performance. Why? Because of perception. When I was in a nice SUV, the perception was that I was doing well... and probably didn't need the tip. When I drive a little Neon, the perception is I'm a struggling magician trying to make ends meet. Other performers I work with have had similiar experiences.

So, yes... age has ALOT to do with it. Not from a skill point, because I'm sure there are some 13-year-old's who probably work card slights better than me. But if the 13-year-old and I go up to get a gig, chances are, they're going to choose me... not because I am better, but because I am older and to them, older means... more experienced, more reliable, etc.

I don't want to discourage you at all, but rather understand that your age is NOT an advantage. There are legal issues to deal with if you're under 16, there's the reliability issue, there's the probability you may get bored, etc.

Figure out what these issues are and address them in your presentation. Try to talk with the manager in person. It's always harder for them to say no in person than over the phone. Offer to show them some tricks. Offer to give them a night free, to see how you do. Find restruants that have family specials/nights. The local Perkins has a special night where kids eat free. Kids can be a good "in". Most of my business is kids' parties.

Don't give up, but DO listen to the guys here. Don't take anything personality, just soak it all in and see how you can use it.
Lee Darrow
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Quote:
On 2006-07-16 18:28, magicman226 wrote:
I haven't done restaurant work (at 14, I doubt any manager would take me seriously). However, I do know some things about it. Not as much magician experience, but people experience. It doesn't matter how good you are at performing an effect. The important thing is being able to direct it at people. If you do it for kids your age, the presentation is (should be at least) different then to high-class business men. Another thing is just having people skills in general. Manners, courtesy, and just being able to have conversation with anyone are all important qualities for anyone working at a restaurant (magician, waiters, managers, ANYONE). Basically, you need to be able to interact with any kind of person. No one knows who the next person to walk into a restaurant is going to be. You need to be able to satisfy anyone, so that they will come back, bringing more people to see you. This is how you generate business for the restaurant and make your paycheck worth while.

Also, in the very beginning, you said you went to a restaurant after performing for 200 people, and you emphasized the 200. Unfortunately, 200 people and a party of 5 is quite a difference.

I hope all goes well for you, and I hope you are able to find a restaurant job and succeed. For me, I'm not sure if child labor laws go into effect on this kind of job (and if anyone knows, please let me know, I'd love to learn more about restaurant work and search for a restaurant that would want my entertainment).

Hope I could help,
Michael


Michael you are both wise and learned (the two are quite different) WAY beyond your years!

I have only one comment to your post:

BRAVO!!

Lee Darrow, C.H.
http://www.leedarrow.com
<BR>"Because NICE Matters!"
Dannydoyle
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Robert let me help you before you go way down the wrong path here.

As a general rule for a formula most places have to make between 4 and 5 times what they spend on an outlay of money for something like entertainment.

Bottom line is if you want to prove to someone you are worth 100 bucks an hour you then have to prove how you earn the restaurant between $400 and $500 in sales perhour JUST TO BE EVEN! Get the point? It is not like they get to keep the entire cost of the entre. NOPE lots goes to food, insurance and staffing and yada yada yada.

Now it is your job to formulate for us how you not only make it so they break even, but you have to prove you are worth MORE than the $400 or $500 per HOUR. This is what I mean by "bottom line figures". Prove where for every dollar they spend on you, you bring in 5 or so.

Now EVERY night prove it. Because when you talk of bottom line figures, and when you say you prove it, you must do it EVERY NIGHT. Otherwise if you only get to about 300 on a night, then that negative 200 carries over so now you have to account for $700. Any additional helps your case.

So show me how EVERY night you can do this. My point is YOU CAN'T and any owner knows this. So lets move on.

You can indeed be part of "ambiance" which is a fantastic INTANGIBLE and most owners know of this. BUT the reason kids have so much trouble is the formula I have told you.

As I have said a 1000 times, if you have NO restaurant experience, you don't know the language to speak or how to act, then getting the job is mostly luck.

Use any multiplier you want. Heck even at 3 times it is a tough equasion when you are working Applebees or some such under priced place. WHICH IS WHY YOU SHOULD DO IT AT PLACES THAT ARE MOR EXPENSIVE. Go figure.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
RicHeka
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Well stated Danny.
Rich
Dannydoyle
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Thanks Rich.

It just seems to me nobody really gets the BUSINESS end of this so maybe it had to be laid out for them.

It is what owners are thinking when you claim you will increase bottom line. It may very well be the reason why so few get calls back. A corolation? Who knows?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
magicman226
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Quote:
On 2006-07-17 13:19, Lee Darrow wrote:

Michael you are both wise and learned (the two are quite different) WAY beyond your years!

I have only one comment to your post:

BRAVO!!

Lee Darrow, C.H.


Well I am glad to be of service for anyone that could've helped.

Michael
RicHeka
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Hi Danny:As you may or may not have noticed,I have scaled back on my dissemination of my knowledge that I have accumulated over the years as pertaining to performing in Restaurant's.I am not so vain to say that I have all the right answer's,however I,as you 'certainly' have(and More),been there done that.

'Magicians helping Magicians'.. I'm not too sure about that sometimes..in order to help there has to be a 'willing and open minded recipient'.It has been my experience here at the Café,that many sincerely ask for help,and then when given it ...Reject It!

Even some guy's that contacted me via PM were unappreciative of my opinions of how to get,and hold a position as Restaurant Magical Entertainer.Hey guy's,if you know better GREAT! go do it.

Sooo..In the future I am going to be very cautious about giving information that I have acquired the hard way,to anybody until I have a pretty good idea that:they are serious;open minded;receptive,and appreciative.

Hey! I am still learning! That is one of the greatest things I love about our ART.

Best.
Rich
RicHeka
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"I am not so vain to say that I have all the right answer's,however I,as you 'certainly' have(and More),been there done that."

Just to clarify my poorly written statement:I do not claim to have all the right answer's..but like many 'crochety' guy's here..have been there done that.Smile
Dannydoyle
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Rich I am in the same mode right now.

People want answers, but only the ones they want to hear. Easy answers that mean they can start today. It is quite angering to those of us who have indeed been there and done that and have gotten the t shirt.

What the title of the board should be is "magicians stroking other magicians egos"

And the term "magicians" is used in its broadest possible context.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Lee Darrow
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Magicians stroking other magician's egos... sounds like most magic clubs to me. At least here there ARE some people who WILL lay out the "real work" on restaurant work (and other areas as well) so that the Café' does, at least in part, fulfill its mission of "magicians helping magicians."

And there ARE some folks on here who actually DO listen to the "sage advice" from their elders - and from those talented and wise-beyond-their-years younger people who have some very good things to offer as well.

I said "Bravo" to one of them a couple of posts ago and I meant every letter of that word. Seeing someone who is mature enough to read, absorb, learn and connect the dots and hen have the brains to share his own thoughts (and having actually THOUGHT them up himself!) makes a lot of the flack, ego-related nonsense and other personality-based silliness worthwhile.

And then to have him come back and actually say "Thank you," really made me realize that there IS hope for the up and coming crop of mages - they are NOT all "dis-kiddies, move monkeys and flamers," but some of them actually DO think for themselves, actually READ real books and aren't afraid to put an idea out on the table for consideration and will listen to and take in suggestions and ideas from others who have had more years of real world experience than they have.

And to that one young man, I say again, "BRAVO, Michael! You are a guiding light for those of your age group - and could well be to a bunch of folks in MINE as well! - Thank YOU - for your thinking, your ideas, your courage and your maners, but above all, your dedication to our Art."

And you may quote me, for what it's worth.

Lee Darrow, C.H.
http://www.leedarrow.com
<BR>"Because NICE Matters!"
RicHeka
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I agree Lee.Michael is a fine example of a young performer who has things in the correct perspective.
I remember him from a couple of threads months ago..very impressive,and if I can steal your phrase,I too say Bravo,Michael.

I think some of the new performers who are understandably still a little confused about thing's can learn more from someone like Michael through age identity alone.

Rich
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