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Steve V Inner circle Northern California 1878 Posts |
I'm wondering if a contract might be a good idea....anyone have any strong opinions on that?
Steve V |
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Stevethomas Inner circle Southern U.S.A. 3728 Posts |
For "real" shows and shows that could be questionable, I always use either a contract or an "informal written agreement" (it looks like it just has all the details and a place to sign). There's a good contract book, called, strangely enough, "The Contract Book", by Jim Kleefeld.
Steve |
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Potty the Pirate Inner circle 4632 Posts |
After booking a show, I always send the client a "confirmation pack". This includes along with photos and a postcard, a letter with details of the booking, and a flier detailing the show they will see. There is a slip at the bottom of the letter they have to sign, which gives the details of the gig, date, time, venue, etc, the exact amount of time I'm paid to perform, and the agreed fee. I don't bother about including lots of small print, explaining what will happen if I for some reason miss the gig, or if they for some reason cancel the gig at the last moment. I know I should, but I feel that my clients want something personal, not too business-like. So far, it's worked very well. I only once had a bounced cheque, and that was promptly resolved. I'm rather laid-back regarding payment, to the extent that I don't bother with bank card numbers on the back of the cheques: when a client says "do you need my bank card number?" I say something like: "I don't know, do I? You know, if the cheque bounces, I'll be sending the pirate crew around!" This one is definitely horses for courses, if I worked some areas, I'd be demanding full payment in advance!
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magic4u02 Eternal Order Philadelphia, PA 15110 Posts |
I always use a contract and technical rider for my larger shows and at least a confirmation letter for my smaller shows. I feel that not only does it protect me, but I think it also makes me look more professional in the mind of the client and puts them a bit more at ease in the process. It really has been a huge help for my wife and I and we make it a part of what we do for every show we book.
Kyle
Kyle Peron
http://www.kylekellymagic.com Entertainers Product Site http://kpmagicproducts.com Join Our Facebook Fan Page at http://facebook.com/perondesign |
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Lee Darrow V.I.P. Chicago, IL USA 3588 Posts |
I showed up for a "Halloweem" (yes, the spelling IS correct!) party that I had been contracted to do for a nationally-known group. The fee had been negotiated and agreed-upon and I was on the schedule. I went to the assigned room, where my name was on the door as the next event. I entered and found the room to be SRO - all adults (which was fine with me - it was a hypnosis show).
I did the show, got a standing ovation a d a curtain call. I got paid and left. The next morning at 8AM, my office phone rang. It was the guy from the organization who had booked me: "Lee, don't try to cash the check. They stopped payment on it." When I asked why, I was told that they had never agreed to hire me! When I mentioned that I had been on the schedule, that my name had been on the door and that they had signed the check (which IS a contract to PAY), he sputtered, "Yes, but now they're telling me that I didn't have the authority to hire you." My response was, "Maybe so, but THEY signed the check." It wound up in small claims court. I eventually won, but it took a LONG time and I will never work for them again. The group? MENSA. It was also the first of only TWO times in almost FORTY YEARS as a performer that anyone has ever bounced a check on me. The second time was due to someone grabbing the wrong checkbook and it was settled amicably and quickly. The moral? - Always get your contracts in writing. Lee Darrow, C.H.
http://www.leedarrow.com
<BR>"Because NICE Matters!" |
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hypnoman1 New user 76 Posts |
Get a signed contract before the event and a deposit. Usually half of what the total amount would be. That way if something goes "wrong" you have legal rights and at least hald of the money.
For those who believe, no explanation is necessary; for those who do not believe, no explanation will suffice.
Joseph Dunninger |
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Scott O. Inner circle Midwest 1143 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-06-22 19:01, hypnoman1 wrote: That is fine for larger, more expensive shows. But for a birthday party, it would probably scare some folks away. And the money involved doesn't really warrant all the extra work. As an aside, I did finally get in touch with the Father that gave me a rubber check. He said he wanted to give me cash or a replacement check. I said I would come the next day and that I would call first. Of course when I called the next day, the phone sent me to voice mail. So... I took a little drive and knocked on the door. The mom was surprised to see me. "I wish my husband would have told me you were coming! I wanted to have the cash for you." I told her a replacement check would be fine -- I didn't have any choice at that point. She kind of waffled at that, and then floundered looking for a check. In the end she gave me a post-dated check and instructions not to cash it until Friday. I'm not real confident that the check is going to cash, but I'll try it -- at her bank of course.
Do not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time you will reap a harvest, if you do not give up. Galatians 6:9
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Steve V Inner circle Northern California 1878 Posts |
I agree with Scott. Contracts for birthday shows is borderline snotty.
Steve V |
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Neznarf Inner circle NY then AZ now 1840 Posts |
I did a show for prisoners.
The guy that hired me said he would pay me double if I brought a female assistant. I tried/asked every girl I know and the all said NO. I even offerd them half my doubled fee.
"Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass...it's about learning how to dance in the rain."
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chris mcbrien Inner circle Chicago 1235 Posts |
I've only been stiffed once on a contract, and they went right to "my list". Thankfully my list is'nt too long!
Chris |
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Steven Steele Chief of Staff 1868 Posts |
I went years without a single problem and then 2006 appeared. So far, 3 cancelled shows and 2 bounced checks. The problem with bounced checks in a neighboring community is so bad that the City Council passed an Ordinance. No checks allowed in the city. You can't find a business that will accept a check anywhere. It isn't a small town either...130,000+ population.
I have taken the stand in the last week... 50% deposit 50% on the day of the performance. Cash or Credit Card only. No more checks. And I've been using a contract for those same shows since the beginning. I'm still running down the last bad check (going on 3 weeks); still getting the runaround. I'm also much pickier about who hires me. If they really don't sound too interested and seem to be fishing, I just tell them I'm booked. I'm trying to grow my business in other areas and I simply don't have the time to waste anymore.
Coram Deo
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Neale Bacon Inner circle Burnaby BC Canada 1775 Posts |
Contracts for birthday parties are not "borderline snotty", they are good business. It shows you are a professional and everything is spelled out for both parties.
I have never in 30+ years had a party cancelled because I use a contract. The only time I have been stiffed on a cheque, I went to their house. I told them the cheque bounced and I would need it covered right now or I would be going to small claims court. Surprise - they had the cash.
Neale Bacon and his Crazy Critters
Burnaby BC Canada's Favourite Family Ventriloquist www.baconandfriends.com |
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Steve V Inner circle Northern California 1878 Posts |
Because you do it doesn't mean it isn't border line snotty, unless, of course, you are the standard we must all be measured by. I think that the average person calling about a magician bases who they hire on how nice they think the person is. If one out of five called says "yes, before we continue I must have a non-refundable deposit of $90.00 and you must return a contract that I'll mail to you immediately" I think they'll wonder about the contract guy trying to press 'em. Now here is a question, shouldn't you agree to sign a contract that you'll arrive a certain time before the show and if the show isn't to a certain expected level that you'll refund to them, on the spot, a percentage of the cost total? Why not just say it will be X dollars in cash ready upon your arrival? That is how most folks I know do it.
In the birthday party business the simple fact is plans get changed due to illness or what ever. You stay in contact and hope for the best and most of the time there is no problem. A contract doesn't make a check good nor does it mean they can't back out of having you appear. Steve V |
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Ryan Price Special user winnipeg, MB, Canada 641 Posts |
If you want to take care of some of the problems that can occur you may want to offer a discount if the amount is paid in full some time before the show.
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derrick Inner circle I dug holes for 1044 Posts |
I like the idea of payment in cash at arrival but I don't think many people are comfortable paying for a service before it has been performed to my satisfaction. I know I'm not.
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derrick Inner circle I dug holes for 1044 Posts |
...been performed to their satisfaction.
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Wanlu Inner circle Manila, Philippines 3058 Posts |
This happened 14 years ago here in Manila...
It was my third show for the day and I was rushing inside the Corinthian's clubhouse...my party manager from Clowning Around Inc approached me and told me that theres a slight problem...then the Dad of the birthday kid approached me and said that apparently his wife hired another magician...but they will still pay me my complete talent fee and they were really sorry for the double ups. They even gave me a good seat to watch the show and had great food while watching the Philippines' number 1 Magician, my good friend Mr Lou Hilario I got my money,had a great time watching a better magician and learned a lot from Lou Hilario "Gos is good,all the time" Wanlu
"The Old Path"
www.angdatingdaan.org Wanlu's Affordable Puppets http://wanlu.net/ventpuppets.html Wanlu and his Puppets http://wanlu.net |
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Wanlu Inner circle Manila, Philippines 3058 Posts |
As for the payments...
Im quite strict with that. Im not from a rich family and doing magic has been my bread and butter for the past 16 years. I just cant afford any problems with payments. For direct clients, I always get a 50% deposit. I don't get a deposit from most of my agents but we have an understanding that they will still pay me half of my talent fee in case a party is cancelled or any problem similar to that. So far, for the past 16 years or so...me and my agents are doing great...had several cancellations due to wrong bookings...wrong dates...wrong time etc...errors done by their secretaries... but I still got paid half... Agents who cannot comply with this simple detail are banned from my list of agents. Have about one or two banned agents who ended up being banned by other top magicians here as well... that's perhaps an advantage of having a group...in my case The Magicians Foundation Inc (MAGFI) or IBM Ring 322 http://www.magfi.com.ph The group can discuss stuff like this and warn other magicians of agents and clients who don't meet up with standards in payments. We only have very few good Magicians in Manila, that's perhaps one advantage we have and that's basically the reason why we can demand stuff from agents and clients. I also choose clients...you can easily feel if a client will give you problems. I guess the best thing to do is get a deposit... getting a dep is not bad, it only shows that youre a profesional Magician. Wanlu
"The Old Path"
www.angdatingdaan.org Wanlu's Affordable Puppets http://wanlu.net/ventpuppets.html Wanlu and his Puppets http://wanlu.net |
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cardcaptor Loyal user tagaytay, philippines 257 Posts |
This is an interesting topic, I'm learning a lot from you guys, actully I'm also a member of The Magicians Foundation Inc., I think I’m the newest member and the younguest, hehehe! Hi wanlu, its me dawin!
I’ve learn so much to this thread and expecting more opinions and tips from you guys, this forum is a big help for me and for all of us.. Thank you!
ILLUMINATI: Brotherhood knowing to be unusually enlightened with regard to the art of magic.
in memory of... SWIFTSHIFTER "The art that purports to control or forecast natural events, effects, or forces by invoking the supernatural" |
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Wanlu Inner circle Manila, Philippines 3058 Posts |
HI Darwin...(Ikaw pala)
We all learn a lot from everyone here in the Magic Café...Im sure we will all learn from your experiences as well. More power to you dude and see you at the Magfi meetings. BTW, re Magfi...I suggest you join the 2nd elimination night in case you missed the first. The finals is something big to look forward to for all of us... More power and more gigs to all of us. Wanlu
"The Old Path"
www.angdatingdaan.org Wanlu's Affordable Puppets http://wanlu.net/ventpuppets.html Wanlu and his Puppets http://wanlu.net |
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