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Batty New user 83 Posts |
I've been practicing the retention vanish for many weeks. However, I still can't successfully use it. I think my one problem is timing, so at what time during the trick do you do "the move". I usually do the move when my two pinkies touch, but if I do it like that, then it can be seen that my fingers are moving. Sorry if this has been previously discussed. I searched and couldn't find a topic on it.
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Jaz Inner circle NJ, U.S. 6111 Posts |
Since I don't know whose or which ROV you're doing so I can only suggest this.
If you do have some movement of the fingers depositing the coin then wait until those fingers are shaded by the closing, receiving hand. Work on minimizing the flickering finger movements. |
Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
At the start of my travels down this path, Geoff Latta cautioned me it would be a year of exploring and practice in front of a mirror before mastering the illusion.
At year's end peers confirmed his advice. Integrating the sleight in to routines took a while longer. There was simply so much "guilt" that the item stuck out like a sore thumb. Roth's Portable Hole is a great routine to work at in this context as it has two well justified moments for the sleight.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Josh the Superfluous Inner circle The man of 1881 Posts |
The smaller fingers are just moving out of the way so you can better grip the coin with your left, that's fine. Just don't bend your index finger or thumb. They're the ones holding the coin at their tips. Do the move for real without the sneaky part, and see what movement is natural.
Make sure you keep the move secondary to what you're doing. Don't display it as "I take a coin, and place it into my hand". See the item that you wish to move or pick up. Then, as if subconsciously, place the coin in your left to free up your right to do that action.
What do you want in a site? "Honesty, integrity and decency." -Mike Doogan
"I hate it, I hate my ironic lovechild. I didn't even have anything to do with it" Josh #2 |
Batty New user 83 Posts |
I'm using the retention vanish from Bobo. And thanks for the advice. And Josh, I like your advice on making the movement seem to happen subconciously. That will probably help me on many other sleights.
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Dave V Inner circle Las Vegas, NV 4824 Posts |
Check out the work of Al Schneider. One of his DVDs describes this beautifully. I think it's vol 1 of "The Schneider Technique" I'm not sure if his is technically a "Retention" vanish as in Bobo, but it certainly gets the job done.
You can see a video clip of how it looks on his website http://www.worldmagiccenter.com
No trees were killed in the making of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
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Josh the Superfluous Inner circle The man of 1881 Posts |
Since I just got off a thread regarding giving credit... My advice comes from my interpretation of the teachings of Dai Vernon.
What do you want in a site? "Honesty, integrity and decency." -Mike Doogan
"I hate it, I hate my ironic lovechild. I didn't even have anything to do with it" Josh #2 |
Batty New user 83 Posts |
How ironic... But I don't really know many magicians by name (even the famous ones), so can you tell me who Dai Vernon is? It is good advice.
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Jaz Inner circle NJ, U.S. 6111 Posts |
Here's some info on Dai Vernon:
http://www.magicwebchannel.com/hall_Vernon.htm and more: http://www.magicdirectory.com/vernon/ Here's another with some links to other famous magicians: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dai_Vernon |
Batty New user 83 Posts |
After reading some of those, it is hard to believe that I have never heard of him.
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Josh the Superfluous Inner circle The man of 1881 Posts |
A WHOLE NEW WORLD!
Your search for the handling of a coin sleight, has just opened up a great door for you.
What do you want in a site? "Honesty, integrity and decency." -Mike Doogan
"I hate it, I hate my ironic lovechild. I didn't even have anything to do with it" Josh #2 |
Mb217 Inner circle 9520 Posts |
Hey Batty, perhaps you are just thinking too much about it. Truthfully, a retention vanish isn't all that hard to master or to apply. I found when I was learning, that I felt as though I wasn't doing it right. I spoke to others and watched, and it came easy enough. There are so many out there, pick the one that works well for you...Actually, they all work well for what they do and what you might be using it for. Not many people use this more effectively within the body of a presentation than Mickey Silver. He took the basic move to new heights and showcases it extraordinarily in his Silver Symphony. But for you, just keep practicing, it'll come...You might even find that you already got it down well-enough.
*Check out my latest: Gifts From The Old Country: A Mini-Magic Book, MBs Mini-Lecture on Coin Magic, The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic
"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb |
Josh the Superfluous Inner circle The man of 1881 Posts |
RE: Subconscious moves
I use an interesting variation of this in a routine I'm working on. At one point I hold a coin in my closed left hand. I instruct the spectator to cover a card with their hand. In doing so, I "subconsciously" put the coin in my right hand, hold my left hand over the card to demonstrate, and then put the coin back in the left when I'm done. My focus is on the card and the spectator. The moves look totally motivated and convincing. The funny thing is the coin is under the card to begin with. Who'd guess the thing I'm throwing around, without any thought, isn't there? I've watched this on video and practically fooled myself. If I held my fist closed and said "The coin is in my hand", and then proceeded to switch it from hand to hand without showing it, you'd probably be more likely NOT to believe me. Same moves, different attitude.
What do you want in a site? "Honesty, integrity and decency." -Mike Doogan
"I hate it, I hate my ironic lovechild. I didn't even have anything to do with it" Josh #2 |
Batty New user 83 Posts |
Josh, thanks for the example. I'll probably use that tip in one of my routines one day. I bet that with some patter as misdirection, the moves will look even more natural and subconcious. And MB, now that you mention it, I have succeeded with the retention vanish for a few people, who I usually show my effects on to see if they work well. They were baffled, but the quality of the vanish didn't satisfy me. I was nervous that I was doing it wrong, and couldn't do it in my sleep, so I stopped using it for anyone and practiced, and I'm still not satisfied. I bet I'll never be able to perform it flawlessly unless I am completely cinvinced that it will work. And I thought all retention vanishes used the same principle, and eventually I would get my own personal feel to it.
And on a different subject, because I didn't want to start another new post, for some reason, I am drawn to things that require a lot of practice. I have already "mastered" the muscle pass (I can get a good 6-12 inches), the coin roll, and am currently practicing the retention vanish, which takes a while to master. Should I also be working on easier sleights? I have practiced the classic palm vanish for only 15 minutes, and it seems to baffle every spectator. But it just seems that I'm not as satisfied with a sleight if I don't work on it. Should I begin focusing on the simple sleights and study the more complex ones later so I have a larger arsenal of coin sleights? |
rutabaga Inner circle Toronto, Canada 1283 Posts |
Simple sleights - I think a good shuttle pass will do wonders when framed properly. And the Schneider vanish seems a lot more natural to laymen than a ROV [at least in my hands! ]
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Batty New user 83 Posts |
I've been scimming through MCM, and found quite a few simple gems that only require a few little sleights. I found the sucker vanish, which only teaches one new sleight to me. I also just found three coin monte and am experimenting with that, because it should be a nice impromptu trick, and it is quite easy to perform. However, I still need to give it some patter.
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aiki Regular user Middletown NY 181 Posts |
Batty,
I think you are making it too hard. Remember what is the person you are doing the effect seeing? They probably will not catch anything. However that does not mean not to keep practicing and improving. My ROV is no where I want it to be. Go to Larry Barnowsky site and take a look at his ROV. His and Mickey Silver's are one of the best ones that I have ever seen. Larry site is http://www.geocities.com/larrybarnowsky
Ray K.
Till we meet again! |
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