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Jaypoc New user 59 Posts |
Many of my friends insist on inspecting any gimmicks, or tricks that I perform. I think that when I decline their request it weakens the effect. I have found with the Hot Rod that if I, at the end of the trick, I "transform" one to their selected color and leave the other side rainbow, I can then hand them the rod to inspect and try to figure out.
I've been pretty fortunate in that nobody has figured out the extremely simple trick to this. They all press each and every jewel, try sliding or pushing them and even view at diffierent angles. I'm curious if handing out the rod is bad practice or if in doing so I am increasing the mystery as they are holding the stick with one side "magically" transformed to their selection? |
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MagiCanada Regular user Vancouver 140 Posts |
Jaypoc.
I'm glad you asked about this. I was just talking about the subject the other day. Go ahead - HAND IT OUT! The method is so simple, it's hard. I've handed it out a countless number of times, I was only caught out once. It was by my little brother who was 7 years old at the time. This goes to show it takes the simple mind of a 7 year old to figure out a simple method. A person any older than that would be trying to work out some complicated scheme. Just my opinion though. My vote is to hand it out for inspection and I am unanimous in that. |
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Corey Harris Inner circle Kansas City, MO 1229 Posts |
I never have this problem. What I do when performing with the hodrod is vanish it at the end. I put the hotrod in my hand after I return it to the original state and aske the spectator to name any other color on the hotrod. Then vanish it and tell them unfortunetly it doesn't work with that color. Then there is nothing to worry about.
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doulos New user Fort Worth, TX 61 Posts |
Hey Jaypoc - my vote is to hand it out. On the countless times I have done this effect, very few trip on the move. I think that is heightens the effect if they can touch it. I would say that if you are concerned with them dicovering the move (depending on how sharp the spectator is) that you follow with Corey's idea. You can get it back from them under the premiss of doing the effect again.
Corey - great tip. Doulos |
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Julie Inner circle 3936 Posts |
There are some specially constructed brass Hot Rods that are designed to be examined at the end of your routine...(all sides are the same!)
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tbaer Inner circle Pennsylvania 2003 Posts |
Julie, I have one of those, they work good.
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sethb Inner circle The Jersey Shore 2719 Posts |
Although you certainly could hand it out for inspection, remember that you are setting a precedent for your audience in doing that. Then, you either have to hand out everything else for inspection, or have a good reason why you can't do so. In my opinion, handing things out for inspection can quickly take you down a slippery slope!
Since you are obviously doing a magic trick and not real magic, it seems to me that the only purpose in handing something out for inspection is to further the "puzzle" aspect of the trick. This makes it more of a challenge than a mystery, another avenue that you may not want to go down. One more consideration: if the spectators inspected every prop before and after the trick, most people would die of boredom during the show. With very few exceptions (perhaps the Linking Rings), inspections just drag eveything out and destroy your pacing. It is also possible to display and handle your props in such a way that inspection isn't necessary, because the props appear to be what they seem to be. A good example is the Cups & Balls -- handled properly, no one will suspect the cups are not empty. Similarly, if a Svengali Deck is handled smoothly and normally, no one will suspect that the deck is gaffed. Ditto for a copper/silver coin, Cap & Pence stack, etc. Interestingly enough, I have found that when people ask me if they can inspect the cards/coins/cups/whatever, if I just say "No," that's usually the end of it, and I just go on with the next trick. SETH
"Watch the Professor!!" -- Al Flosso (1895-1976)
"The better you are, the closer they watch" -- Darwin Ortiz, STRONG MAGIC |
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JackScratch Inner circle 2151 Posts |
@SethB - I have found that to be both correct and incorrect. What you have stated can be true, but it can work the other direction. It's a relativly simplistic look at audience control. I have found that if you make one or two things available for inspection, in the right manner, then that is enough, they don't want or need to see anything else. They simply assume that everything is as it seems, because those two other things were. Again, it doesn't just happen this way. There is a long and very complicated process to learning how to control your audience properly and many many factors are involved. Stance, tone, facial expressions, are but a few of the factors that contribute to audience control. It's something every magician should work on, for the rest of their career as a magician, as it is a thing which is never truelky mastered.
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sethb Inner circle The Jersey Shore 2719 Posts |
Drew -- you may be right, I might have overstated things a bit. In my own experience, I don't have many requests to examine props, but that may be because I sell magic tricks, which is somewhat different from a straight performance (although I do demo everything I that sell).
It's probably safe, and maybe even a good idea, to give a few things out for inspection (or at least let the specs hold them in the course of the routine), because it may create the illusion that more things were inspected when they were not, or that everything is normal because those items also appeared to be normal. However, as you noted, if the specs are continually asking to examine props, it's an indication of less than effective audience management. Good point. SETH
"Watch the Professor!!" -- Al Flosso (1895-1976)
"The better you are, the closer they watch" -- Darwin Ortiz, STRONG MAGIC |
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Kent Wong Inner circle Edmonton, Alberta, Canada 2458 Posts |
My performance of the Hot Rod has changed a lot over the years. I find that the most powerful way to make the magic happen is to have the colors change in the spectator's hands. Get them directly involved with the trick so they can feel the magic happen (as opposed to just watching it). Not only do you draw the spectators into the trick, but also, because they are in such direct contact with the Hot Rod throughout the trick, they never ask to inspect it.
Having said this, I firmly believe that there is nothing wrong in handing out the Hot Rod after the trick. But it is "HOW" you hand it out, and "WHY" you hand it out that is important. If you hand it out to be inspected, you reduce the trick to nothing more than a mere puzzle - a challenge to the spectator. On the other hand, if you simply leave it in the spectator's hand, they are being allowed to handle it as a continuing part of the illusion. Kent
"Believing is Seeing"
<BR>______________________ <BR> <BR>www.kentwongmagic.com |
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Jaypoc New user 59 Posts |
Thank you for the reaffirmation that it's okay to hand out the Hot Rod despite it's few downsides. I understand the concerns with handing it out Which is why I was questioning if it's really effective, but it seems that in most cases, if done properly and under the right circumstances, there is no harm or devaluing of the effect.
Corey Harris - I like the idea of dissapearing the rod. That's something I should start working on (Sleights are not my strong point at this time). As for having to pass out items, I don't think people are as pushy to see the object when you're demoing it in a magic shop (at least in my case). Your customers (unless you're in a shop in a mall/tourist area) already know that there's either a gimmick or sleight involved with the trick, and are more concerned with the effect. They know they will learn the secret once they buy the trick. Am I correct on this as it's just an assumption based on my own experiences? Seth - I agree that you don't want to give the spectator the impression of a puzzle, which is why I always make sure if they want to inspect it, to give the impression that I "magically" set only one of the sides to the chosen color. Then when they have the rod in their hand, it looks like it actually did transform to their color. (I think the simplicity of the rod quickly dispells the "puzzle" or gimmicked rod technique as there's no slides, buttons, etc and the rod is completely transparent.) Magicman - I would be curious to see a video or description of your presentation. At what points do you place it in their hand, take it back? I like the idea of letting the spectator feel that they are in control of the effect. |
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Kent Wong Inner circle Edmonton, Alberta, Canada 2458 Posts |
O.K. - here is my routine for this trick. If it fits your performing style, feel free to use it. But do me one favour. If you are a magician in Edmonton, Alberta, please refrain from using this routine. It remains part of my active close up repertoire. Thanks.
My uncle was a jewller and when he retired, he gave me this little gem stick as a gift. It has six different types of family gemstones on each side. The customers would pick which gemstone they wanted and then my uncle would create something amazing with the stone. [Turn to spectator #1] Would you do me a favor and pick a number between one and six, and then tell me which number you you like? Four? One, Two, Three, Four - What color is that stone? Red? Excellent. Same thing on the other side. One, Two, Three, Four - Same color? Great. Could you hold out your hand, flat like a table [pantomime what you need to spectator to do with your free hand, extending the hand flat, in plam down position]. Watch the stick and think Red. One, Two, Three [The stick starts on top of the spectator's outstreached hand. On each count, the stick goes beneath the hand and the stones rub gently on the outstretched palm. On the third time, the stick is pulled out from under the spectator's palm very slowly in order to let the colour change sink in]. And yes, both sides have changed to Red. [Turn to Spectator #2] Could I get you to hold out your hand, flat like a table? Perfect. One, Two, Three [Same move as above, but now, the stick turns back to mult-colored stones] And yes, both sides have changed back to the way they were. Now, you [spectator #1] turned the stones Red, and you [spectator #2} made them change back. Let's try something different. [To spectator #1] Could you open your hand flat, but this time, hold it palm up? [place the stick on the spectator's open palm]. [To spectator #2] Could you cover the stick with your hand? [Just before the spectator covers the stick, turn it over once]. [To spectator #1] You made the stones turn Red. [To spectator #2] You made the stones go back]. Let's see what happens when you combine your powers. You make the magic happen and then spectator #2 removes her hand from the stick. You slowly turn the stick over while it is still in Spectator #1's hand and say, When you both do it, the stick turns half red and half back. Note: Don't be in a rush to take the stick back.
"Believing is Seeing"
<BR>______________________ <BR> <BR>www.kentwongmagic.com |
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Jaypoc New user 59 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-06-27 14:57, magicman845 wrote: I appreciate your response. I didn't expect that detailed of a run-down. I doubt I'll be performing in Edmonton any time soon (I'm in New York and as of now, Magic is more an ongoing hobby/interest for me than a profession). Even so, I wouldn't use your act without modifying it to suit my personality. I was more curious about the way you brought the spectator(s) into the effect and allowed them to handle the Hot Rod during the effect. I like the way you incorporate two individuals into the effect to bring to the half and half ending. Thank you. |
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Brad Burt Inner circle 2675 Posts |
I think Drew and I are on the exact same page here. I manipulate things so that it looks as if everything can be examined by routining things in such a manner that it seems that that is so.
Remember: The moment you hand something out on DEMAND of the audience you are changing what you do from 'magician' or 'magical entertainer' to that of PUZZELMAN! The ONLY reason for someone to examine your props is to try and figure out how the trick, effect, routine worked. I strongly suggest that you not play THEIR game. Here's a conversation repeated ad nauseaum among magic folk and those that bedevil them: Magician: Ta Da! And, the card is now in the odd looking bottle! Spectator: Can I examine that odd looking bottle? Magician: No. Spectator: Then it's a trick. Magician: zzzzzzzzzzzzzz (Has nothing to say to the truth of the statement just uttered by the spectator. Fini ------------------ How this should and can go: Magician: Ta Da! And, the card is now in the odd looking bottle! Spectator: Can I examine that odd looking bottle? Magician: No. It's a trick. (And, put prop away and goes on with show, etc.) ------------ Gang, they have not 'gotten' us with the 'it's a trick' comment. It IS a trick. Admit it and move on, but DO NOT hand out props on demand EVEN IF THEY CAN BE EXAMINED. It sets a bad presi, preza, rats....precident(?)...I hate that word. O.k., you get the idea. Best,
Brad Burt
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JackScratch Inner circle 2151 Posts |
Super example of audience control Brad. For humourous effect I have gone from a jovial persona to a flat and forceful "no" when asked to view my props. (always gets a laugh, the way I do it) As you say, never ever ever let them examine a prop if it was their idea.
While audience controll is realy another thread (or threads) it is such an important subject, and one I feel is somewhat difficult to relate or teach to someone else. |
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Dave V Inner circle Las Vegas, NV 4824 Posts |
You run some risk of it turning into a puzzle if you're not careful. If this isn't your closer, you've lost their attention as they inspect the rod.
I saw a strolling magician hand out his hot rod at the end. Actually, he handed it to me. As the rest of the group was puzzling(there's that word again) over how it worked and tossing around theories, I offered to help figure it out with them. I then essentially repeated his routine showing how the gems changed colors and back again, never trying to "top" him but rather puzzling over it myself wondering how he got gems to change in my own hands. I finished with the half and half display and handed the rod back to the magician with a smile. I had some fun, the people had even more fun, and the magician was made out to look even better because of it.
No trees were killed in the making of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
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CJRichard Special user Massachusetts 542 Posts |
Quote:
Too bad the guy can't arrange for that to happen every time.
"You know some of you are laughin', but there's people here tryin' to learn. . ." -Pop Haydn
"I know of no other art that proclaims itself 'easy to do.'" -Master Payne Ezekiel the Green |
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Jaypoc New user 59 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-06-28 18:35, BradBurt wrote: That's an excellent point, and one I am going to stew over for a while. I previously handed out the Hot Rod to fulfil the spectator's curiosity and to show that there is no trickery going on. I would think that would be the outcome, but I never took into consideration that I was letting my spectator take control of the show. As for becoming the puzzleman as opposed to magician, Magicians often hand out signed cards, predictions, coins, etc.. How is this different from handing out a prop for inspection (assuming it was MY idea to hand it out in this case) as opposed to the prop (or so the spectator thinks) that was used in a coin/card effect? Also, Does the fact that most of the magic I perform is for small groups of 1 to 3 people at a time matter when making the decision? I typically perform for friends or associates at a bar, at work, at home, wherever. And it's Precedent. |
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JackScratch Inner circle 2151 Posts |
It isn't the handing out that does the damage. It is how it is handed out. You can approach it with a "Here, see, it's perfectly ordinairy". That way makes it a puzzle. If, on the otherhand, it is simply part of the process. The hotrod changing in their hand, or even handing it to them saying something about a better look at the quality of the gems. Just so long as they don't know you are trying to convince them. That's the real killer. When I do the hotrod, I spend the first part of the effect denying that anything is even happening. The I change to a flase explanation of dust on the gems that can be rubbed on the other gems to change their colors, the hand them the hotrod and tell them to do it. I'm not suggesting they figure it out, I'm letting them do the effect.... or so they think.
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Hushai Elite user St. Louis, Missouri, USA 459 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-06-26 19:02, Corey Harris wrote: May I ask what method you use for the vanish? (I won't be offended if you'd rather not answer.) |
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