Anyone know of good learning resources, whether they are books, vhs, dvd, or online, that teach the fundamentals of controlled dice throws?

Carefull of this subject. There is a LOT of crap out there. More than on most subjects of this nature.

The problem with the "light touch" is that the end of the craps table has those diamonds on it which you are required to hit for a throw to count in a casino. Those assure all of your efforts will be for naught. It assures random throws.

if you want to do it outside a casino, then you have a better chance.

Thanks for the advice danny

Cardshark where are you going to be playing....May I ask?

Doc

I'll be playing in private games, mostly cee-lo

Everyone is always raving about that Forte stuff. Maybe you should check that.

I think Eddie Fechter has published some dice work. Throws, etc. with a cup. Hey, get juice dice.

There you go. And if you are going to play on the street you could bribe someone from the Department of Public Works to gaff the sidewalk for you!

^lol^

Danny, I didn't understand what you meant, could you pls elaborate? thanks!


j

Most of what is written about controling dice is not applicable the second you see those little diamonds on the end of the table.

Most of what is written is theoretical and CRAP in a real world situation.

I am not sure this is actually elaboration, but I am not sure how much further I need to elaborate.

There are two groups of people that use the term "controlled dice throw."

Hustlers and advantage players use the term to mean throws that usually involve extreme amounts of spin to stabilize one of the cubes as they are "thrown" down the layout. Although extremely difficult to do well, these shots are real and have made people money in the past. These shots can even be done off the puck and still "hold up."

The second group that uses this term are dice setters. These people believe that they can influence the outcome of the dice by attempting to pick them up in a special manner, throwing them with a certain grip and giving them the same amount of rotations each time*. They're trying to do the same thing as the hustlers (minimize the numbers the dice can stop on), but they're trying to do it by controlling bounce, roll, and loft. The hustlers aren't trying to "control" bounce, roll and loft, they're trying to eliminate them!!

That's why the hustlers use such extreme spin. The spin stabilizes the die like a child's toy top. The die to be controlled does little more than slide down the layout, but the spin makes it look like it's tumbling. (Turning and blocking the crew as much as possible helps as well.) A few of the guys that specialize in this shot have apparently acquired the ability to even give the die to be controlled a little "air." The die really is thrown off the table a tiny bit, but the bounce is mitigated by the high level of spin to the point where the die still doesn't tumble.

Though the attempted end result is the same for both groups, the differences between them are huge.

Jason

PS: Forte demonstrates some controlled dice shots on a homemade dice table on Volume 4 of his Gambling Protection Series. The concepts of high spin, low throwing angles, etc can be seen in the variety of shots that he demonstrates, though it must be said that the table he's working with has been built to deaden the bounce and allow the dice to hold up. It's still pretty incredible to watch though.

*The general consensus is that dice setters are deluding themselves about their abilities or are intentionally misleading people to sell books and systems courses. However Stanford Wong, a very well-respected authority on blackjack seems to feel there may be "something" there worth studying. He's even published a book on dice setting, Wong on Dice. I haven't read it.

In a cee-lo game you have to use the spin/whip shot holding the 6 and 5 upward like in tape 4 of the GPs series. By killing the 6 and 5 you let the other dice fly randomly if it shows a 1, 2 or 3 you shoot again but if a 4 comes you would have cee-lo, if a 5 come you would have head crack, if you throw a 6 your point would be 5. Technically speaking I always hold 6-5-5 combination.

some hustler's pick up the dice randomly and when they see one of the 3 dice showing an ace they hold that one die using a middle finger and thumb action spining and killing the six and letting the 2 dice fly randomly. The whip shot that's on the GPs series is not what we use on the streets.


Peace

Doc

p.s. I know exactly what you want and how to do what you want to do but it's not given just for the asking. The closest thing on the market to what you're looking for is the Gambling Protection series tape 4...as a matter of fact I just came back from meeting a dice expert today who would like to pass the torch on to me.

I don't think anyone can throw a controlled dice roll in craps with legit dice. This is real hype.

Doc,

What kind of surface are you doing this on?

Bursky I have heard these urban legends for years.

Since the diamonds on the end of the table, not possible in a casino, no matter how many sources or terms anyone gives you.

On a flat surface, against a wall, I am not sure. You can definatly increase your odds of certian numbers, but not to the degree claimed.

I have watched so many dice throwers make claims who tried to demonstrate their fantastic ability for money, and lose every time. I have watched dozzens of these alledged demonstrations, and never seen one pan out as said. Not even close.

Ignorance is bliss...so they say.

When hustling in the streets you have to work on any surface that you possibly can...but to keep it real with you the rougher the surface the harder it is for you to make that shot so you want the smoothest surface possible or dirt. start out practicing on news paper and then change the surfaces as you get better.

Doc

Danny makes a legit point about the difficulty of contolling shots of off the pyramids. But, there is a "real world" that exists outside of the casino as well.

"On a flat surface, against a wall, I am not sure. You can definatly increase your odds of certian numbers, but not to the degree claimed."

I don't know about all that. Depends on the situation.

Jason thanks for the explanation, now I see the distinction between the two. Doc as always thanks for your tips as well. Hopefully that dice man will pass on the torch to you.