Now we have taken an interesting turn. Yea dowser I spell horrid. Second lets keep the short stick talk going.

The bet between the dealers was exactly how far they could get her to "lean over" or "reach" for the dice.

Amazing they have no real clue they are so intent on the game. Talk about someone distracted!

Actually dealers in this mindset ( and it seemed to be a lot of them ) are pretty easily distracted as well!

Back in the mid '70s when I was living in Reno the following occurred.
A lady with ample attributes was shooting craps at the Nevada club and was
wearing a VERY low cut dress. All eyes were on her. On one particular
roll just as the shooter was releasing the dice she reached across the
lay-out to place a "come" bet and her "ampleness" popped out. Well, a
moment later when the craps crew's eyes returned to where they were supposed
to be, there was a 12 on the dice and a table maximum bet in the FIELD
(btw - 12 payed triple). Everyone on the crew smiled knowing that they
had "been had" but nobody cared. The bet was paid without a problem and
all later admitted that it was well worth it.
LVLEW

Now that's what I call distraction!

A short stick can lead to a long woody...

Short Stickin' the ladies.....who knew?
The Café teaches me something new every day.

Gentlepeople, all parties involved in the argument have ignored the one constant in the situation in cheating in ANY casino situation - and with the newer technologies, it IS a real problem and blocking the stick, box or sideman becomes largely irrelevant when you take this into account - and that is the Eye In The Sky.

With Hi Def, which a large number of the casinos now have installed (I just played a gig at Trump's in AC last month and THEY have it already), the EIS can read your wristwatch without zooming in very much at all.

So spotting a throw that does not hit the backwall, especially on a Big Money Throw, is a pretty near 100% lock - they WILL see it and the throw WILL be challenged in a majority of cases.

In fact, I witnessed happen in three different instances while I was there during my 3-day stay doing a promotional show for a resort company that is not affiliated with the Trump organization.

Just a side note...

Lee Darrow, C.H.

Failing to hit the backwall isn't a CRIME...

He never said it was a crime, only that the throw in most cases will be challenged in the majority of cases. Never once mentioned it was a crime.

Matter of fact he said almost word for word what I said 4 pages ago.

I'd like to see these supposed "cases."

I forgot, any case anyone but you site is supposed. Gotcha. Sorry my bad

MrZ,

In one case the Nevada Supreme Court upheld a conviction of a dice slider.

Oops.

In actual fact ...the majority of cases wherein both dice do not hit the back wall are NEVER challenged . Usually it requires both dice (not just one) to fall short and must happen repeatedly ...at which point a warning is issued along with a request to "get them both of the wall please" . This will also be followed by a further warning. "No rolling" any shot requires a diligent and possibly obstinate boxman. The amount of money wagered is rarely a factor but if it is, it will be an intimidating one for a boxman working up the courage to challenge a winning roll at a full table of big hitters. The truth is that there are some boxmen, and most dealers, who will never challenge a roll (regardless of how strictly casino procedures may be interpreted by the experts here on the Café).
Dowser

Why is it that the floor personel who watch Blackjack are not intimidated by big players, but those who watch craps are assumed to be?

Why is it that on this site everyone seems to think that the Blackjack personel are almost blessed with second sight, but craps dealers are borderline retarded, blind, and intimidated by big money?

I will admit it makes for a more convienent arguement, but it is not reality. I have never SEEN a boxman intimidated by anything. Sure it can happen, sure it has happened, but why is it all the sudden the rule?

Just so I get this straight, the only competent people in the casino are in the Blackjack pits? People who can actually watch you count cards, which by the way as a way of "getting the money" is far less effective than the methods you guys describe here. Takes FOREVER to count which is boring, but another thread. With the right odds on craps it takes far fewer moves is my point. So the casino has its incompetent personel there? Your kidding right?

Maybe it is not how WE inturpret the rules, it is the casino. Heck your inturpreting rules and assigning behavior as incompetent to dealers. And regardless of how many times you guys write it, the dealers, and security are NOT all incompetent. Sorry to tell you.

Sigh, Danny you're helpless.

You're really deifying the "cat and mouse" aspect of detecting card counters. It's terribly easy to do, all you have to do is watch the swings in bet spread and the major counters/teams are all known to the casinos anyhow. Smart table technology will do this all for you.

That's not to say some counters/teams haven't been successful in the past--they certainly have. But as times change so do the methods.

Skilled dice throwing in a Casino is crap.

Z you are so wrong it isn't even funny.

Clearly when your speaking of card counting your out of your depth.

Tommy,

What do you mean by skilled dice throwing? Is that different from sliding them?

It just a little joke about "Craps" ronfour.

However, many a true word is spoken in jest. I don't know any one who makes a living throwing dice in a casino do you? We hear about these phantons at the dice tables but no ever sees them.

Except in cases wherein the casino has eliminated the box position, any good dealer will leave the calling of "no roll" up to the boxman...which in most cases is the worst that can happen to a player whose dice repeatedly fall short. If the player just simply refuses to hit the back wall on every throw, (a behavior unlikely to be seen from a professional capable of controlled shots) the boxman will simply "pass the dice" and that player will not be allowed to shoot.
Most craps staff are not incompetent at all ; but they are human. Danny's argument that security is not incompetent has no bearing on the discussion. Perhaps he meant Surveillance which only has a little more to do with this argument than security. "No Roll" is a pit decision made by pit staff.
Dowser


Posted: Jul 25, 2006 12:43am
-------------------------------------

No one who doesn't observe or play craps on a regular basis at least.
Unfortunately they don't put out a newsletter. I am aware of one team being identified as specializing in controlled throws and being backed off from craps...the casino's reaction was anything but immediate.
Dowser