Shoo that 2 cents turned into a dollar

Amen Brother Jimmy.

Bro. Paul, those of us who have been around a bit get it. Someday Pat will too and when he goes back and reads that post a few years from now after he just saw some kid nick one of his pet routines he will probably have a full body cringe.

Time and experience (hopefully) makes us wiser.

You're the man Bro. Paul, just keep swinging!

Best,

Dan-

Guys...How is it that you can judge me when you don't know me. Am I a truly considered a "hobbyist" when I am as busy as I want to be doing magic?? I am working over 30 weekends a year doing shows. That is 2 + weekends a month. And making great money. I have two small boys at home ages 1 and 3 who like to have daddy around and are still to small to go to Ren Faire and camp for the weekend. I also have a wife with a very busy career and she likes me to be home at least two weekends a month! I don't know why I am explaining this to anyone, but it annoys me that because I choose to only work a couple of weekends a month and then do restaraunt work some, that I am a hobbyist and an amateur. I count on the money I make as much as any of you do. Because I have another career besides magic, I am a coward for not doing magic full time. Maybe I like having affordable medical/dental/vision...

Frank - He had nothing to do with us getting hired to do the same show. We were hired on our own merit after the promoter saw our show, and we don't share a stage. What Paul refers to as a few years ago was in fact over 10 years ago. Steve and I have been performing as Myth & Magic for the last 8 years. We started doing this same show as Paul just 4 years ago, and we have always taken the balloon routine out of the show out of respect for his wishes. It wasn't until this year when he said what he said that we didn't.

Dan - We did not "nick" his routine! We simply do the same effect, two different routines though. I too do Whit Haydens comedy ring routine in some of my corporate work as well as Slydini silks. Does this mean that everyone else who does these effects has indeed "nicked" them from someone else?? In this case, Bro. Paul?? Give me a break. I will say it again, it is not the juggling or the effect that makes a trick, it is the patter. Ours is completely different than Bro. Pauls.

I had a lot of respect for Bro. Paul! Like I said, WE HAVE TAKEN THE BALLOON ROUTINE OUT OF OUR SHOW EVERY YEAR UNTIL THIS YEAR! Is everyone reading this? But if someone calls you a thief and insults you, I don't know about everyone else, but I am not very inclined to be obliging! Bro. Paul is a fantastic performer, and does a fantastic show. I considered him a friend...

Snipe1:

Personally , I want to believe that it was all a mistake, a misunderstanding. BUT when you come here, saying how you have been wronged but use the name snipe1, there is confusion. Snipe has 2 definitions, one is "a bird," the other is "a contemptible person." It is hard to say, "yes, OK, no harm intended..." when you call yourself contemptible.

Tony

Yes, I can see how it could be a name you chose because you felt you were already convicted, but in choosing that name, to many you are admitting fault.
It could have been chosen to make light of the whole situation as well, but that would have been in poor taste.

Tony,

Or...Snipe could be a nick name that I have had for years....

Don't read into things that aren't there....

Snipe, so you work two weekends a month as a busker. You claim to make as much money with your magic as we do. Well I won't swap details with you and am not asking you personal questions. However, I Danny, Frank, Jimmy, Bro Paul and many others make our living ONLY by magic. Busking, restaurants, a combination of those plus other shows, but we have no day job to fall back on, nor do our wives or girlfriends work to support us. Yet we live in very comfortable settings. No one called you a coward for falling back on another job but can you understand that our point of view is definatly going to be different than yours and your partners.

Bro Paul did assist you when you started. We all had someone to mentor us when we started. Yet none of us used anything from our mentors act unless they gave us permission to do so. I studied with Gazzo to learn the cups and balls. I use his moves because I paid to study with him. I have also spent time and learned from Kozmo, but because we were at the same pitch and he took the time to teach me one of his moves, I would never ever use it as my closer like he does. Why, because it is Koz's closer for his sidewalk shows. I am not Koz so I have to develop my own.

That is just the way we as buskers look at things. You are in the wrong on this one snipe.

Paddy, I never said I made as much money as you or others make. Please read again. What I said is that "I count on the money I make as much as any of you do". Meaning, I work hard for my money as do all of you. And I count on this money to pay bills like anyone else does. At that point, it becomes more than a hobby, it is a second job.

The more that I think back on this the more the details do come back. I would like to add some of the details of the conversation that went on between Bro. Paul and I. It was right after we had done our first show and he walked up and said someone had told him we were doing the balloon trick. Yes, we said we weren't going to do it at this show. When a particular routine is your opener that you have been doing for the past 8 years, it is like muscle memory. You just do it. I told him as much. I apologized. It was an accident. Once again, let me re-iterate, we did the balloon swallow, not Bro. Paul's routine. Right after that is when he basically called me a thief. It was at that point that all bets are off. You gave an example of Gazo teaching you a move in the Cups and Balls. That is not the same thing here. I totally agree with that, Paddy. You learned HIS moves, so of course you wouldn't do it if by chance you are at the same show. But Paul did not invent the balloon swallow, nor does he copyright it or own it exclusively. Hell, we don't even swallow it the same way. I didn't learn it from him, and once again I will say, the routines are completely different. Period. We were doing our show for 4 years before we ever performed at the same show with Bro Paul. He didn't mentor us. We have had some really great mentors along the way, but I can confidently say that, NO, Bro Paul had nothing to do with the development of our show.

To further clarify, I am not looking for anyones approval in what has happened between Bro. Paul and I. The ONLY reason I posted was so that everyone would have the full story from both sides. Bro Paul was not completely truthful and forthcoming with the details and I wanted to clarify. At this point, I know it becomes a case of he said/he said, my word against his. And after all the hateful things that were said about myself and Steve and Myth & Magic, I was leary about doing it to begin with because we have been cast in a negative light by lies! I will state again for the record, while the effect of swallowing the balloon is the same, the routine and patter are completely different. Like I said, I will be more than happy to post a video of our routine and let Bro Paul post his and let them speak for themselves.

Pat

I would have to say that when ya are workin and gettin paid for it, you should have routines that you can switch in and out depending on the venue, and other performers. The mark of a pro is being able to roll with the puches.
If ya hav a "old pro" workin the same pitch as you, whether it be a faire or a sidewalk, and you do something similar to his or her schtick, then change it up a bit. Also nothin wrong with askin "ok I do the balloon bit?" of the more experienced and seasoned pro. It's called respect.
It's been my experience that it wont matter what ya do because it wont effect the pro's show, or his money but it's always right to at least check.
I was at a fringe fest and there were 4 other fellas doin the cups and balls. Sure, I do the cups and balls, but I know when people have seen one thing, they look for somethin different, and wont stay unless you're doin extremely better than those other guys or extremely different. I'm no better, so I gotta be different! So I put changed the routine and did a knotted silk bit with the cups to get my edge. Funny how changing up can help your show.
Ok, I'm dun...

PS Snipe, that was a joke I said about gettin your names and takin care of it. Lighten up... you'll smile more.

I hope not. If true, the nickname does not speak well of you.

Take care and have a good life

Tony

Tony,
It's common to have odd names for a Ren Faire "handle" It's possible Snipe is simply one of those stage names.

I agree! And like I said, in the past that is what we did. It is when you are insulted that I no longer give a rip about what one wants or the respect one thinks they deserve.

As for your other comment...I can certainly tell a joke and I smile a lot. Pretty light guy over all. That is why I am so amused by a lot of this. But some people were just plain rude. I happen to love the Godfather as well...so yes I knew you were joking

Pat

Pat, nobody's passing judgment, I was just saying it is all going to look a lot different to you a few years down the road is all. Bro. Paul IMHO is clearly in the right on this one. YOU don't feel as though you nicked his routine. Well, and I am basing my opinion ON WHAT YOU SAID. It sounds to ME like you did, BASED ON WHAT YOU SAID not Bro. Paul. Now you can justify it to yourself any way you want and that's cool and I am not going to judge you for it, but fact remains IMHO you nicked that routine right out of his act. Just one guy's opinion, I wish you nothing but the best, and I do think you will feel pretty bad about this a couple years down the line. I am not blasting you or being angry about it in any way. I just disagree with you, that's all. I think you're justification is hilarious to be honest. I ain't mad at all, but I sure as heck ain't drinking your kool-aid either. I think Bro. Paul was right on this one YMMV.

Well, we got the full story from both sides now and you have pretty much cemented everybody's opinion about nicking the routine. Sorry we couldn't agree with you. I don't think a video will help. This might be a good time to just let it go.

Best,

Dan-

Bringing up that you'd like the routines compared on video certainly says to me that you don't understand the real problem. It does not matter if the routines are completely different. If you're using a balloon swallow at Ren Faire where Bro. Paul is performing, it takes away from his act. that's not going to fly well with any pro and I'd imagine the amount of material people share with you in the future would disappear becuase of it.


Turning the argument into "you'll do whatever you want because he did something wrong to you". That argument is no better and is just a smoke screen.


You're 0 for 2.

HA HA HA

I do so hope that Bropaul pens a rebuttal to Snipe1's comments. It would be a fitting end to this thread before it gets locked.

Truth be told, I hear a lot of valid points in Snipe1's, unfortunately ill grammared, response. On the other hand if I was the new kid on the block and I got an earful from one of the old salts about one particular routine I was doing (that we had discussed before, even!) that was "his" for the past 12 years... I'd just find a new opener. Period.

"New Routines" are a whole lot easier to come by than "New Reputations", and the epitath "I don't care what Y'all think anyhow!" never sits well with the peanut gallery that you volentarily threw your hat into, Pat...


My real question to both parties is- What are EITHER of you doing with a balloon routine at a ren faire when balloons were not invented until 1824! -20 points off for Anachronism each!!!

Gaddy wrote:

"New Routines" are a whole lot easier to come by than "New Reputations"

Very wise advise ..

He also wrote:

" My real question to both parties is- What are EITHER of you doing with a balloon routine at a ren faire when balloons were not invented until 1824! "

Man, I was thinking the exact same thing !!

Nice,
Cap'n Mike
==================

But if they'd had balloons, they would have used them.

Paddy,

Did you know that Brother Paul and his wife travel the country selling Garlic Salt and BBQ spices and they seem to be doing quit well doing it. . .

. . . or did you not know that?

Does that make him any less of a magician then you?

Tim

Myth and magic call their balloons "rat intestent animals" and Brother Paul calls his "snake bladders". . . having seen Brother Pauls show about 9 times and Myth and magic's show about 25 times I can tell you that Myth and Magic and Brother Paul do completely different effects, except for the one thing that they both do and that is the balloon swallow.

They both do it in a very different way, Myth and Magic do it as a two man act they use different lines, moves and patter, they take full advantage of having two people. There are a few jokes that they both use in referance to a straight balloon being a walking stick, a snake, a fishing pole etc.

I find Myth and Magic's balloon swallow much more entertaining than Brother Paul's version.

Brother Paul does a great Jeff McBride water bowl routine, I think he out does Jeff McBride when it comes to the handling of water bowls. Brother Paul is amazing with cups and balls.

Brother Paul also sells some amazing Garlic Salt. $25 a

Tim

I bought some Garlic Salt from he and his wife. They're very friendly folks.