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dranex New user 17 Posts 
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Why does Criss Angel stoop to the point of jacking Cyril's material all the time. Not just certain effects, but the same twists as well (shadow work, grocery store, ton of other segments I cant recall). I am praying that Cyril gets his show out here soon so people will completely forget Criss Angel exists. I can't stand magicians who will do anything and use any means to better their own image, and whose magic comes second to their celebrity.
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MopKrayz Elite user 423 Posts
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Maybe Cyril and Criss Angel have the same consultants.
Most of the "ideas" we see on these shows are neither Cyril's nor Criss Angel's but come from the mind of people like danny cole, bannacheck, johnny thompson... |
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Zorlio New user 10 Posts
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I doubt that Criss Angel would steal another magician's material. Angel would lose all the respect and status that he has right now, especially by the people he works with on Mindfreak. It doesn't make any sense for him to steal anything because it would work completely against him. I'm pretty sure both Cyril and Criss just have permission to perform the effects they do from the people who came up with them in the first place.
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SantaClaus New user North Pole 28 Posts
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Quote: Judging by some of the threads on this forum, maybe that's a good thing.
Angel would lose all the respect and status that he has right now, |
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kregg Inner circle 1950 Posts
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99.9% of the material is or has been.
POOF!
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Skip Way Inner circle 3771 Posts
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Didn't I just read in MAGIC that Danny Cole consults for Criss and Cyril? Where did I stash that issue?!? Mop has it right that using the same consultant will result in similar bits. How typical of these glass-house people to judge others before they investigate the facts.
How you leave others feeling after an Experience with you becomes your Trademark.
Magic Youth Raleigh - RaleighMagicClub.org |
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bitterman Inner circle 1189 Posts
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What is your thinking on the ethics of selling the same act to two people that you know are going to use the same material on TV? I wonder if Cole said to whomever came second, 'This is the bit that I sold to Cyril (or Angel)' and that second party was ok with sloppy seconds?
If you are not cheating, you are only cheating yourself.
Dutchco is about to put out some new Ebook: DUTCHCO. Get 'em while you can. |
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SantaClaus New user North Pole 28 Posts
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It's entirely possible that both magicians are keenly aware of what each other is doing, and that they are both okay with it. I'm only speculating here ... but is it possible that Angel actually knows who Cyril is? And is it possible that Cyril knows who Angel is? Perhaps he's even seen his show, if I'm not getting too far into fantasy land here.
Okay, I'll dispense with the sarcasm. There doesn't seem to be any problem here. If one magician was using the other's material, or if Cole was doing something unethical, surely either Angel or Cyril would be upset about it. I don't hear either complaining. Nor is there any indication that Cole has been fired by either performer, as I'm sure would be the case if he were being a snake. When Cyril, or Angel, gives any indication that something is amiss, THEN there will be a story. Right now, there's nothing. |
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MopKrayz Elite user 423 Posts
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Danny Cole was a consultant in the latest tv special Cyril did in June. It was in the July issue of MAGIC magazine
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Skip Way Inner circle 3771 Posts
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Quote:
On 2006-07-12 10:07, bitterman wrote: So, using this bare thread of "logic" ... once an effect is used by one magician, no other magician should ever touch it? Only one substitution trunk to a customer? Only one card through glass? In the tradition of magic, Criss and Cyril have done similar effects in their own markets with their own unique flavor and style...as it should be. Neither has copied the other move for move or word for word...something, I suspect, that can be said about very few who frequent this board. You purists are clearly overthinking this issue and looking for problems where none exist! There goes my keyboard again ... all this rust!!!
How you leave others feeling after an Experience with you becomes your Trademark.
Magic Youth Raleigh - RaleighMagicClub.org |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27300 Posts
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This is not about art.
Artists don't copy (that way anyway) And the "consultants" thing is pretty much on the mark. Look at comedy writers by parellel. Check out the Dick VanDyke show for more on that. Commerce is about selling what folks want. Like the Kinks song goes, "Give the People What They Want".
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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edh Inner circle 4698 Posts
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Didn't Al Capone also say that during prohibition?
Magic is a vanishing art.
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bitterman Inner circle 1189 Posts
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Quote:
On 2006-07-13 12:04, Skip Way wrote: Why so confrontational Skip? I was asking what your thinking on the matter was; not making any kind of declarative statement. I never said "once an effect is used by one magician, no other magician should ever touch it". TV magic is so rare these days, it seems odd that someone would sell the same act to two different TV magic shows. I was wondering out loud how up front Cole was about doing that. Maybe party B saw party A's show and liked it so much he hire Cole to recreate it for him. Simple questions. There was no thread of 'logic' presented, in fact, your over-reaction smacks of someone who might be feeling a little guilt for performing some other magician's sloppy seconds himself, but I'm sure as an anti-purists, you would have no problem with that.
PS: The Dick Van Dyke, as good as it was, is no more what comedy writing is really like than Cheers was what hanging out in a bar off the Public Gardens is like.
If you are not cheating, you are only cheating yourself.
Dutchco is about to put out some new Ebook: DUTCHCO. Get 'em while you can. |
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Skip Way Inner circle 3771 Posts
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Geesh, you're right, Bit...that did come off as confrontational. It is so difficult to thresh the sarcasm from the sincere discussions at times. Due apologies.
On the other hand, the "selling the same acts" and "sloppy seconds" comments kicked my "What do these people expect?" defense system into high gear. One of my greatest pet peeves is the propogation of the belief that the "secrets" of magic are more important than the presentation. If this were true then every birthday party magician would be a Vegas quality star by default of "knowing" the secrets. I find the fact that Criss and Cyril may be performing similar effects as worthy of comment as the fact that Rick Thomas and Siegfried & Roy both do tiger productions. I feel the duplication issue is unimportant because each performer presents the illusion in his own unique style. As an advisor, Danny Cole's job is to present a variety of proposals during the production brainstorming sessions. Surely hundreds of ideas are floated, discussed, trashed or modified before a workable concept is outlined. It's then up to the producers and performer to select the features they want to use...and the advisor makes it happen. Danny can't be expected to know which of his ideas Cyril, Criss, Blaine or any of the other performers on his list may or may not use for any given production. To suggest that he's "double-dealing" each performer with "sloppy seconds" in this situation is, in my opinion, insulting and ridiculous. I say this within the framework of rational discussion...not sarcasm or confrontation. I hope it reads this way to you. As far as the guilt; What guilt? How many magicians are there who DON'T use someone else's material, prop or concept? We can probably count the true original creative artists out there on the fingers of both hands...and sadly, they're rapidly disappearing with age. I'm no different from the thousands of others in that I will often buy the latest and greatest effect on the market. I do, however, count myself among the one or two hundred performers who will throw away the instructions then take that material and make it uniquely my own. I write my own scripts with my own unique comedy, music and storylines. Then, if David Blaine or Criss Angel does a version of this effect on television, my version still comes across to my clients as fresh and new. If a masked magician exposes the "secret", my version is still entertaining and fun. When I perform on a stage with other magicians, I am confident that nothing they do can harm or diminish my performance. So, bottom line ... Criss and Cyril perform similar effects ... big deal. Hope that clears the air and my thoughts on the issue. Once again...sorry for the earlier tone, Bit. My passion has always been my most visible flaw. Skip
How you leave others feeling after an Experience with you becomes your Trademark.
Magic Youth Raleigh - RaleighMagicClub.org |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts
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Quote:
On 2006-07-11 23:55, Zorlio wrote: BWAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA Everything in that post made me truely lol.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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Caveat Lector Elite user 493 Posts
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Quote:
On 2006-07-11 23:55, Zorlio wrote: I am going to assume that you are a bit new to the magic world. But, unfortunately he has stolen quite a bit. But that really doesn't matter to the paying public, only to us and he does not care about our opinion.
Corrupting the art of magic, one show at a time
www.underworldent.com www.myspace.com/johnshawcomedymagic |
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Zorlio New user 10 Posts
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I meant that I don't see why he'd steal stuff to then show it on his Mindfreak show; it would just make no sense. I dunno, I find it hard to believe that he would literally take an effect, present it as his own, while knowing that it's not. Would his Mindfreak team even let that happen? I doubt they would want to continue working with him.
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Jazz Veteran user Mexico City 377 Posts
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Come on guys, let´s not be that naive!
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ruseman New user Just East of Omaha 9 Posts
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Quote:
On 2006-07-15 18:43, Zorlio wrote: How old are you? Maybe it does not make sense to you, but it makes sense to him. Criss pays his team very well, the would not leave him over this. I have seen Criss not only do other magician's "stuff", but word for word. Hey I like Criss, but I don't have any illusions about his ethics. |
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Zorlio New user 10 Posts
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Quote:
On 2006-07-16 10:32, ruseman wrote: well, at least that was explained without making me sound stupid, so I appreciate that; next time I'll try to write it in MLA format (or maybe APA) |
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Posted: Jul 10, 2006 05:13 am 
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