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Magicsquared
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Yes, it's just a normal box of mints. I'm not 100% sure what the guy is selling. The routine seems fairly standard and the box is ungimmicked.
kammagic
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Quote:
On 2006-07-15 20:45, Jonathan Townsend wrote:
I just got dizzy reading five pages of this... and perhaps missed an answer to my pressing question:

Can you keep mints in the box and let the volunteer remove a mint?


Jonathan,

At what point do you want the spectator to be able to remove a mint. Before their card is found inside or after?

, Jonathan2
kammagic
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Ungimmicked vs. Gimmicked

ok I think you guys need to know more about my philosophy about working walk-a-round. When I approach a table I am carrying nothing, I wear a vest not a jacket and my sleeves are rolled up. I want to carry as little on me as possible. Every magician I know does invisible deck I won't do it because it is something extra to carry. Every trick I learn or buy must pack small(very small) and have more then one use otherwise it aint coming with me. I did magic behind a bar for 11 years. Behind a bar you can do anything. I had a nice case with all my goodies in it. But when I started doing restaurant work I sacrficed many of my favorite effects mainly because I refused to carry all that around with me. Over the 14 years I have been doing restaurants I have trimmed myself down to a lean mean magic machine. Everything I carry on me must be very strong and take up little or no space at all on my body. I have enough on me to handle any situation at the restaurant up to a 30 minute set if I have to but have never needed to do that long. So you see where I am coming from when I say I don't like gimmicks. 90% of the time using a gimmick means you have to carry something extra. The only way I will carry one is it must be small or nonexistant and have more then one use and be a very strong effect. For example I do use a Steve Draun Real Man's wallet and that could be looked at as me carrying a gimmick. But the Real Man's wallet is my actual day to day wallet so I would be carrying it any way. So it's like a gimmick that takes up no space. Of course we all know the strength of card to wallet so that is another plus. Now the size of a gimmick is one issue but my main reason for not wanting to carry gimmicks is the reliance we get to them. I want total self reliance. A gimmick is like a crutch to me. If the effect is good enough I will take the time to work a way out to do it with out the gimmick before I will carry the gimmick around with me. If I can't work out a way to do it gimmickless then I aint doing it. There is plenty of other strong magic out there that doesn't rely on a gimmick. When working restuarants you always have repeat customers and there is nothing worse then a customer requesting the Sazalfram trick and you didn't bring your Sazalfram gimmick or it broke the night before. Yikes! Working the way I do unreliant on gimmicks I am always ready to perform any requested effect. I think it was Mark Twain who said life should be as simple as possible and no simpler. I believe that way about magic.

So with all this in mind I carry ToiBox with me whenever I work it has gained the right to travel with me from table to table. It packs small plays big has many uses and is super clean. Once a customers sees it they will always reqest it on return visits. This friday night when I first arrived at work a "regular" sitting at the bar was there with a friend of his who had never seen me. The first thing out of his mouth was "You gotta do the Altoids trick for my friend here" I did it and even did the new handling which allows you to give them the tin immediatly after you remove thier card. This effect is so unbelievable to layman. He even requested that I do the 3 tin version which is a prediction effect. That floored them just as well and to magician's it 's the same effect really but laymen just don't get it. The prediction effect is very very strong. I would have to say one of the strongest effects on layman I know. Its one of those effects that sneak up on them you can see it in there face the more they think about it they realize how imposible it was and everything is done so openly and fair.
tdowell
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Kam,


Your effect is not a new concept, gimmicked or ungimmicked. I watched the video and your effect is good, but there are other effects based on the same principal that also have advantages.

Heck I did an impromptu version with a cracker box after someone said "hey, can you make my card appear in that box?" Yep, I did it and it went over strong, just like your effect (Nabisco owes me big time).

By the way "gimmick" can take several interpretations. Your Toibox is gimmicked. There is a set up, there is a gimmicked box, and there is a way of removing the gimmick, which is obvious to those of us familar with the principal.

I'm well aware that the average Joe isn't going to figure it out, but Jon's box doesn't scream gimmick any more than your little mint tin brother. Either way, the specatator doesn't have a clue.

In the end though, I would like the spectator to go home telling his friends: "I opened the case and I pulled out my own signed card, it was unbelievable, I pulled it out!!!."

Cheers.
kammagic
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Tdowell wrote:

Kam,

Philosophy Smilosophy. Your effect is not a new concept, gimmicked or ungimmicked. I watched the video and your effect is good, but it has problems. Why are you putting the lid on the box so quick? That's what I would expect my audience to question.

Response:
All heat is on the folded card they never question the box. Only a magician would.

--------------------------------------------------
tdowell wrote:

By the way "gimmick" can take several interpretations. Your Toibox is gimmicked. There is a set up, there is a gimmicked box, and there is a way of removing the gimmick, which is obvious to those of us familar with the principal.

response:

If you think it is gimmicked like the kaps version it is not.

-----------------------------------------
tdowell wrote:

I'm well aware that the average Joe isn't going to figure it out, but Jon's box doesn't scream gimmick any more than your little mint tin brother. Either way, the specatator doesn't have a clue.

response:
From my experience I must disaggree with you.

------------------------------------

tdowell wrote:

In the end though, I would like the spectator to go home telling his friends: "I opened the case and I pulled out my own signed card, it was unbelievable, I pulled it out!!!."

Cheers.

response:

Jons trick is a great effect and is definately a wonderful addition to the magic world. My trick is also a great effect. I would of never compared my trick to his but everyone here seems to think they need to compare the 2. His effect and mine work differently and each have unique advantages. There is room for more then one Card To Box Effect on the market.

But I guess according to most of you here there is only one Card To Box effect worth anything.

With my routining I have heard spectators explain the trick to their friends and they always remember the effect as removing the signed card themselves. I find that part of magic very funny. They always descibe spongeballs as " My hand was empty I closed my hand then opened it and there were 3 balls in my hand" not true but I aint gonna tell them.
mgshn
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I just got my ToiBox notes, accompanied by a still-sealed tin of refreshing breath mints. The notes provide useful details, accompanied with detailed photographs on how to use the box that holds the mints, or any other small container, to do some amazing card magic. The details include describing a couple slights, one which has been in print almost since the Greek Gods were popular (get it?) and the other is unique (to me at least) and describes an interesting subtlety for extracting a folded playing card from a small container.

The container is ungimmicked. However, there is a suggestion of how you could gimmick it if you like and how to handle it if you care to leave it alone. (By ungimicked I would imply that no glue, tape, wax, magnets, phlegm, etc are employed). Also included in the notes, to read and absorb while you are enjoying the mints, are a few (five or six depending on how you count things) routines. The one used by the author 90% of the time is the standard Card to Can routine with two extra moments on the way to the ending, suggestions for covering the move, and an optional extra effect (second phase). This is where a second card is chosen and not signed, appears in the tin, is removed by a spectator, and winds up being their selected (and still unsigned) card. I would stop with the first phase, possibly including the extra moments.

So, is it worth $20? If you don't do a card to can then absolutely. This type of effect can be a lasting memory for a spectator. If you already do a C2C then it still might for the extra touches it could provide to your existing routine.

Is it a destination box? Absolutely not. It is also not better it is not worse. It is different and in a way that I suggested in a previous post, about a mile back in this very thread. (in a nutshell, the TB isn't "big enough" to play to a crowd (The Destination Box certainly does) and the DB is, for some, a but much to take on a stroll.) To put it another way, the DB is more amazing, the TB is more portable. Also, as someone else mentioned a long way back, this isn't about the box, it's about the notes.

Bob Tobias

P.S. imho
MarianoG
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4 days online. NOBODY is going to say nothing about the copyright broken by METACAFE.com concerning a very famous soda can trick!!!????
Jon Allen
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Hi Jonathan,

Having read your post about how you perform, I think what you meant was that for your personal personal style, ungimmicked is better for you. Everyone has there own criteria for choosing the effects they perform. Personally, I don't like tricks where I'm just showing people what can be done without any interaction. That's fine and I am sure nobody can argue with your reasons.

Something that comes on on here a lot is when magicians say, "My audience never notice this / see that / question this / remember that etc. etc. We as magicians can dictate people s thougt processes up to a certain point. Beyond that, some people will notice something or they will form a logical chain of thought that leads them to question something. An example for this topic:

A card ends up in a box sitting on a table:
He never went near the box
A folded card is seen in the box
The magician unfolds the card and it's my signed one.

Possible thought process:
My card did not vanish from the pack of cards and transport itself into the box
The card in the box was not my card
The magician must have somehow swtiched it for my one.

I don't know what % of people don't think like this but I would think a decent % will. Depending on the performance, some may assume you sneaked in in the box without them noticing. There will be a number who will want to work out how it was done and can reconstruct it to come up with the right answer. Even though I have tried to negate all possibilities, I have had about 10 people come up to me and tell me how I did the trick. People do like to solve a good mystery and no mater how much we try and avoid them doing so, we cannot be successful all the time.

I agree with Jonathan that there is room for more than one C2B on the market for the same reason there are variants in everything from cars to mobile phones. You have to look at what you want from the prop; whether it suits your performance criteria; whether it suits the type of performances you do and whether it fits with your abilities as a performer.

If anything, Toibox should be compared to Arthur's Simplex Card to Box. Both are not too expensive and use basic containers. When I first heard that he had come up with a C2B where the person could remove their signed card I was a little worried and very intrigued! When I saw it, I relaxed as it is totally different to mine in terms of handling and technical data. Check it out along with Toibox if you would like to see a Coke/Pepsi challenge!

Jon
Paragon 3D - the most incredible Card to Clear Box you will ever own. Be fooled here: http://youtu.be/GQxRZ1OGkUo
The Silent Treatment - Digital Edition: this iconic routine just got upgraded! Watch - http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=phTDUhX0m9o
Order the bar-raising DVD set 'Connection' at www.onlinemagicshop.co.uk
kammagic
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Quote:
On 2006-07-16 07:59, Jon Allen wrote:

If anything, Toibox should be compared to Arthur's Simplex Card to Box. Both are not too expensive and use basic containers. When I first heard that he had come up with a C2B where the person could remove their signed card I was a little worried and very intrigued! When I saw it, I relaxed as it is totally different to mine in terms of handling and technical data. Check it out along with Toibox if you would like to see a Coke/Pepsi challenge!

Jon

Thanks Jon,

Yes I have talked with Arthur and our effects are similar in that they use simple props. But ToiBox and Arthurs Simplex Card To Box have totally different handlings. So all the Card To Box effects I know of are all unique and have there specific handlings and advantages. So there should be one out there for everybody.

Jon K.


Quote:
On 2006-07-16 07:43, mgshn wrote:
I just got my ToiBox notes, accompanied by a still-sealed tin of refreshing breath mints. The notes provide useful details, accompanied with detailed photographs on how to use the box that holds the mints, or any other small container, to do some amazing card magic. The details include describing a couple slights, one which has been in print almost since the Greek Gods were popular (get it?) and the other is unique (to me at least) and describes an interesting subtlety for extracting a folded playing card from a small container.

The container is ungimmicked. However, there is a suggestion of how you could gimmick it if you like and how to handle it if you care to leave it alone. (By ungimicked I would imply that no glue, tape, wax, magnets, phlegm, etc are employed). Also included in the notes, to read and absorb while you are enjoying the mints, are a few (five or six depending on how you count things) routines. The one used by the author 90% of the time is the standard Card to Can routine with two extra moments on the way to the ending, suggestions for covering the move, and an optional extra effect (second phase). This is where a second card is chosen and not signed, appears in the tin, is removed by a spectator, and winds up being their selected (and still unsigned) card. I would stop with the first phase, possibly including the extra moments.

So, is it worth $20? If you don't do a card to can then absolutely. This type of effect can be a lasting memory for a spectator. If you already do a C2C then it still might for the extra touches it could provide to your existing routine.

Is it a destination box? Absolutely not. It is also not better it is not worse. It is different and in a way that I suggested in a previous post, about a mile back in this very thread. (in a nutshell, the TB isn't "big enough" to play to a crowd (The Destination Box certainly does) and the DB is, for some, a but much to take on a stroll.) To put it another way, the DB is more amazing, the TB is more portable. Also, as someone else mentioned a long way back, this isn't about the box, it's about the notes.

Bob Tobias

P.S. imho

Bob,

Thanks I am glad you like it. I will be looking forward to hearing your experiences after performing it.

, Jonathan
simon hughes
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John you mentioned that you have seventeen better things over a toi box I am wondering what they are?

What flavour mints are most suitable for toi box?

with best magical regards,

Simonhug
Jon Allen
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Hi Simon,

I don't think it's appropriate to list all 17 advantages in a thread meant for reviews of another product. I will say that I PMed Jonathan the list and apparently only 6 are valid!

Amongst those that aren't, according to Jonathan, valid advantages are:

# You feel safe that only you can open the box. There is no worry that a ‘grabber’ will open TDB ahead of time and ruin the effect.

# TDB can be adapted to specific events and personalised to your own persona or performing style.

# Change what goes in the box mid-performance.

Oh well Smile

Jon
Paragon 3D - the most incredible Card to Clear Box you will ever own. Be fooled here: http://youtu.be/GQxRZ1OGkUo
The Silent Treatment - Digital Edition: this iconic routine just got upgraded! Watch - http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=phTDUhX0m9o
Order the bar-raising DVD set 'Connection' at www.onlinemagicshop.co.uk
kammagic
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Simon,

Yes Jon and I talked and no surprises. Both our items are different so each has unique advantages over the other. The Destination Box is a high end product and well worth the money. ToiBox is inexpensive and shines over similarly priced Card To Box Effects.

, Jonathan
Ethan
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I think a valid advantage of the DB is that it is more versatile. I use it upwards of 4 gigs a week and I've actually never used it for a card. My main use is for the appearance of a ring vanished earlier and the spectator gets to open the container holding the ring for themselves. This can not be done with Toibox. Since I'm happy to carry TDB with me so Toibox doesn't offer me much, however if space is a real issue then this is where Toibox scores very highly.
camador
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This has been very misleading!!!

Cheers
davidpaul$
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Just wanted to mention that Jonathan, as promised, has sent via PDF an additional handling showing the tin empty after the the spectators signed card is dumped out of the box. (see previous threads) I also received the Toibox tin and book yesterday and echo Bob Tobias' review at the top of this page. I already do a CTB but am glad I bought Toibox. There are some (why didn't I think of that) routines
that I will use. I work restaurants so pocket space is at a premium, this fits the bill with the audience impact they expect. I'm glad I bought it.
David Paul
If you can't help worrying, remember worrying can't help you!
Cody S. Fisher
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Hey guys,

I reviewed this effect a few pages ago. At that time I stated that this was an "OK" product. My review was based on the fact that there was nothing really "new" as far the CTB plot. For those that are interested in doing magic with everyday objects...you will probably like this. For those of you looking for something a little nicer TDB is probably a better investment.

Anyway, why am I posting again on this topic? Well, I just received a .pdf file from Jonathan that outlines a method that will allow you to show the box empty after the sh*ttl* p*ss. It is is not too difficult and allows you to end pretty clean. So if you are concerned about showing the box empty...now you can...

I hope this helps...

Cody S. Fisher
To Sign Up For My Members Only FREE Monthly Videos Visit: www.CodyFisher.com/store

Cody's Comedy Confabulation / Silk-2-Egg / Killer Prediction / Tossed Out Deck / Comedy Book Test / Las Vegas Aces / Three Ropes & 1000 Laughs
Tivoli
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Well, well after 6 pages.. the ctb plot goes on and I think that because of this thread Jonathan came up with something new that he shares to his custumer.
well done Smile
arthur
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kammagic
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Hello,

As mentioned I sent out PDFs to all ToiBox buyers. The PDF explains how to hand out the box completely clean after removal of their signed card. This will appear in the second printing of the book which is coming up soon. I was able to send to all the people who paid through PayPal but if I missed someone who paid through the mail please contact me with an Email and I will send out the PDF of the new page immediately.

Thank you for all the positive comments about ToiBox in your replys.

, Jonathan
B_Bishop
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Hey fellas,

This is my first post on this site, however, my review of this product was copied and pasted from another site. This was done with my permission.

I have read this post at the request of a few friends, including Jonathan, and I have to say there are some semantic loving quibblers around here. I want to say that the thing I liked the best about this product was where it took me creatively. I have already devised a method other than the shu**le Pa** for revealing the folded card that fits my presentation, and I had already used this method as a way of showing the box empty. My point is not how cool I am. My point is that it WILL get the creative juices going. I personally like giving spectators their signed business cards back to them using this fun utility device.(a la Gary Kurtz)

Jonathan, your notes are great, but thanks for helping to inspire. You are a professional.

Tried of reading yet? I know I am.

Brett Bishop
Dr. Zordas
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Quote:
On 2006-07-20 05:20, B_Bishop wrote:

Tired of reading yet? I know I am.

Brett Bishop



Yes, Brett, so am I.

6 pages - for God's sake! It's only a ruddy tin of mints!


Dr. Zordas
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