It definitely sounds very interesting but I think I'm a little confused here. If I followed correctly in the first phase of the effect the magician removes a signed card from the box and then, this is where I get lost. Is another card selected, from the deck, not signed and lost in the deck and then the spectator can remove the card from the tin?

I think Jon Allen's Destination Box is absolutely incredible and would be very hard to beat. I really like John Kennedy's Mystery Box as well but The Destination Box is definitely my favorite.

[quote]On 2006-07-12 01:56, JJP161 wrote:
It definitely sounds very interesting but I think I'm a little confused here. If I followed correctly in the first phase of the effect the magician removes a signed card from the box and then, this is where I get lost. Is another card selected, from the deck, not signed and lost in the deck and then the spectator can remove the card from the tin?


Yes, That is correct. Though, the second phase is optional.

The nice thing is that it is locked so speckies don't go opening the darn thing while it's on the table. However, Jon Allen's Destination Box could actually be opened by the spectator and peeked at. They would not find out the secret. Very excellent!
James

Jon Allen's box and the Kennedy Box are both wonderful ideas and great effects and if they fit your needs then ToiBox probably is not for you. But ToiBox definately has its niche. For restuarant work or walk-a-round work I'll put it up against any other similar effect. It is in this environment ToiBox shines.

...I can't even get the ruddy thing to play in FireFox or IE! Bloody QuickTime - why do people bother with it!?


Dr. Zordas

Shame aboout the time difference! Now there's a whole load of stuff to comment on so apologies for the length of this post...

MagicMania wrote:

Compact is not necessarily better. Because of the size of The Destination Box, it is a feature item. I use it to open and close my set. It also helps me find out a lot of information about my audience which helps during the performance. It is padlocked so it is of interest to people because they want to know what is inside. A little, everyday tin, while getting the job of having a card appear in an improbable place, does not have the same impact.

I use The Destination Box anywhere as well. Tables, Receptions, sitting, standing indoors or outdoors. The fact that I have to hold it when I approach a group of people makes no difference whatsoever.

Kammagic wrote:

People haven't grabbed it but what happens when they do? Just because they haven't; doesn't mean they won't. I think that anything the magician supplies himself is under scrutiny. Your job is to deceive after all. As for any unique looking box screaming "gimmick" I beg to differ. I actually hand my Destination Box to someone at the beginning of my act. It is a simple, no frills, wooden box. They look all round it and are satisfied. After all, why would I give it to them if it were gimmicked? I have never had anyone ever say there must be something strange about the box. The fact that I am so casual about handing it to them emphasises this fact. I can have people examine the box afterwards but nobody ever does thanks to the routining. If absolutely necessary, I can open the box and take out the contents, show the box, put the contents back in and lock the box again. It is examinable but it does ruin the surprise of what's inside the box if I do that

I think people are forgetting about two important pieces of magic: handling and performance. No matter what a prop looks like, you have to handle it in a natural manner. If I handle a gimmicked box in a natural manner, this is much better than handling a regular item in a suspicious manner regardless of what the effect is that is produced by the prop. One thing that virtually all video demos do is have the prop nicely in place and everything set up for the trick.

How have you introduced the prop? What is your reasoning for having it? What happens to it after the routine? If you introduce a box and then pull out a pack of cards, people will automatically assume the box has something to do with the cards and when a card is selected, they know *exactly* what the box is for. I introduce my box as the very first thing I do. Nobody has the faintest idea what it is about. I would be interested to know how people who use Toibox introduce the box and how they separate its introduction from the card trick.

Kammagic wrote:

What about everyone not on here who do not have the benefit of an explanation. Those that know the method from watching the video will be confused and those that don't will read that someone else can remove their signed card and assume that the video shows the routine where this is possible. From watching the video, it looks exactly like Bruno Hennig/Kaps version although I do know it is slightly different to enable the person to remove their own card. As for criticisms, I believe you have not seen Tommy Wonder's routine and learnt his theory and I do not believe you know about mine either. The criticism has come not from the routines but from the video showing a routine that does not show the prop 'in action' coupled with a statement that is extremely misleading.


Size has nothing to do with how good something plays. The Destination Box plays much bigger and is also much more versatile. As for doing little work, this implies it is easy. Physically it might be but handling, performance, audience management, misdirection all take work¡K. and a lot of work at that.

Magicmania wrote:

The website states that the card is signed and ends up on the box: "First time it's a surprise the second time it is under strict conditions and the spectator opens the tin and removes the card themselves" That *definitely* sounds like you remove the card the first time; they remove the card the second time. You yourself even wrote: "Jonathan also gives you a second phase where the spectator can pull the card out themselves." Sounds like they remove the signed card to me!


I think the problem with magic is that people see an item and buy it but once they have learned the secret, they cannot ask for a refund as it is seen as them just looking to see how a trick works. However, if someone has read a description, seen a video and then receives something different, they should be allowed to have a refund. As Kammagic said, Toibox has its niche. However, people need and deserve to know what they are getting. At the very least, they should be able to see what they are getting rather than seeing one effect of how the audience may perceive the effect. If that means some people figuring out what you have done then so be it. If there are other ideas and routines then they may well admire your thinking and wish to but the item to see what else you have to offer with it.

I think it would be a great competition to put all the Card to Boxes up against each other in the real world and see what happens!!! I think *mine* would come out on top....


Jon

Jon, In your signature line you refer people to a site where you are selling Silent Treatment. My question is, "Do *you* have a version where the spectator can remove the card?"

For me I think $5 dollars for an instant download to learn your handling for TOI BOX makes sense .....
not $25 dollars for an old effect that is not yours......
vinny

Jon Allen, you have your goal acheived, you make everyone here think that Destination Box is the best item out there! Great !

I think it might be easier for you to ask Magicmania to change the thread topic to ''Destination Box is the best!'' instead of writing hundred of words selling your item.

Hi Mgshn,
I don't advertise that they can. Every so often, they could though ;-)

Hi Mario,
I was responding to various negative comments about various boxes, of which mine was one, and putting forward the facts. There were also other subjects which I addressed, hopefully in an objective manner as well.

Personally, I would love to hear from others who have bought Toibox to see what they think.

Jon

No Kidding. This thread has been hijacked.

I think this has gone too far! All I did was write a review. Then you guys came along an started bashing Jonathan's effect. I know some of you wanted to clear things up, but there is no need to convince people to not buy it. That is very rude and disrespectful. How would you feel if people did this to you?

If my product deserved it, then so be it.

I don't think people in this thread were "bashing" it out of malice. I legitimately felt that the Toibox offered nothing new and wanted to give my input.

Jon, I think you've sold me on the Destination Box. I needed a better way to bring my close-up set full circle and I think the D-Box will do the trick.

$250 for Destination Box!!! I'll stick with ToiBox.

It'll pay for itself in 1-2 gigs.

I think I have just figured out what has been confusing and bothering me about ToiBox.

I believe I would have taken to it much more positively had the emphasis (both here and on the product's site) been on the special routines instead of the prop itself. The fact that the video just showed a common CTB routine put undue emphasis on the prop, instead of the routines, which I assume are really the product's selling point.

I think we could have skipped all of this had the product been marketed as a pamphlet of routines (which is what it seems to be) instead of a magic box.

One man's opinion.

I very rarely visit the magic Café chat board but I had some free time today and stumbled across this thread. I have watched the demo video of the Toi BOx and to me it just looks like the Bruno Hennig card in box classic. It doesn't matetr if the method has changed if the conditions havent been improved. The excellent Kennedy box allowed you to leave the empty box on the table which was obviously empty. I never used to draw attention to it but I am sure it was noticed by one on two spectators at every table.

A few years ago I bought Jon Allen's Destination Box and I never looked back. This is a trick that I do at every event I work at, every single group or table gets to see it. I urge everybody to re-read Jon Allens post on the previous page.

Best regards,

Noel
http://www.noelqualter.com

All kidding aside, I think Toibox and Destination Box are in different leagues. (Here's where I manage to get Jon *and* everyone else mad at the same time.) Toibox doesn't look like the kind of think I would want to use as a set piece in a stand up act. OTOH, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't want to carry a DB with me just to use as an out in a strolling situation. In fact (sorry Jon) I, at least, wouldn't want to carry a DB with me to stroll at all. I just don't have the pocket space. In my view the world is big enough for both props to get along.

That said, I ordered the thing and will post my impressions of it soon. I do own a DB and can recommend it, along with Jon's excellent lecture video, without any reservations. (Boy, am I going to catch it for mentioning that on this thread...)

So, what's everyone think about Israel invading Lebanon?

I suggest combining the two -ie use the toibox instead of the mint tin in the destination box. this way you get the power of both effects.

Jon Allen's Destination Box is a great effect and ToiBox is not a replacement for it.

Destination box and ToiBox are both Card in box effects just like a car and a truck are both vehicles. What makes one better then the other is how each of them satisfies each individuals needs. Should everyone go out and buy ToiBox? Yes that would be great but in reality ToiBox is not for everyone. This is not a competition. ToiBox is simply a unique handling of a classic effect I have been having wonderful success with and I wanted to pass that on to others.

What happened to "The Magic Café" "Magician's Helping Magician's"

, Jonathan