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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Tricks & Effects » » Toibox Review!!! (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Review King
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It's a card to box. Ring box, mint box, it's a box, so it's OK to compare. But to compare it unfairly is wrong. I'm not judging the effect. Our friend The Godfather ( Vinny ) has a BRILLIANT application for Jon's effect.

I hope my comments were taken in the spirit I intended them.

Chris
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been"

..........John Greenleaf Whittier
Jon Allen
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That chart will open up a hole tin (or box) of worms!

Ungimmicked doesn't matter; how you handle a prop is more important.

The KMB can be reset instantly.

The KMB can be set up in front of the audience.Being a common item and rasing suspicion are two different things.

How can the KMB and AM not be easy to carry on you????? What constitues difficult? Even TDB is easy to carry on me and that's bigger than all those listed boxes put together.

Why do performers want to have things examined all the time? So what if KMB, AM and TWB can't be examined before the effect? It's obvious the signed card isn't in there at the beginning. All you are doing is bringing even more undue attention to the box.

It's a shame TDB wasn't in the comparison chart as well :-(

Jon
Paragon 3D - the most incredible Card to Clear Box you will ever own. Be fooled here: http://youtu.be/GQxRZ1OGkUo
The Silent Treatment - Digital Edition: this iconic routine just got upgraded! Watch - http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=phTDUhX0m9o
Order the bar-raising DVD set 'Connection' at www.onlinemagicshop.co.uk
kammagic
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Jon,

I agree that to the spectator the fact that the trick is gimmicked doesn't matter. I am selling this to magicians and it does matter to a magician wether a trick is gimmicked or not. TDB works differently so it is not compared to ToiBox on this chart. All the boxes on the chart are similar shuttle pass style effects. The chart shows you the benifits that ToiBox has over other type of effects. I just debuted ToiBox at the Midwest Magic Jubillee and everyone loved the idea. I am still on vacation and will tell you more when I get home later this week.

, Jonathan
Review King
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Jon, how come you didn't address the issues I raised?

Chris
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been"

..........John Greenleaf Whittier
Jon Allen
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Hi Chris,

I *think* you are talking to Jonathan. Seeing how he is Jonathan and I am Jon, would you mind differentiating between us? I looked back to see if I missed anything you may have asked me but I'm sure you were referring to Jonathan.

Cheers,
Jon
Paragon 3D - the most incredible Card to Clear Box you will ever own. Be fooled here: http://youtu.be/GQxRZ1OGkUo
The Silent Treatment - Digital Edition: this iconic routine just got upgraded! Watch - http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=phTDUhX0m9o
Order the bar-raising DVD set 'Connection' at www.onlinemagicshop.co.uk
kammagic
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Quote:
On 2006-08-20 21:31, MagicChris wrote:
Jonathan, I don't agree with your chart:
http://web.mac.com/jonathankamm/iWeb/ToiBox/Chart.html

You say the Mystery Box doesn't have an instant reset or can't be set up in front of the spectator or can't be examined at the end. That's not what I've found. A tap to the box and you're ready. Use Larry Davidson's idea from his Scripted Insanity DVD ( Bobkohlermagic.com ) and it's not even noticed. The gaff is so well made, they can see the box after the effect.

I think your chart is slanted heavily in favor of your own product. Just my opinion, but I use the Mystery Box and can do what you claim can't be done.

Best,
Chris


Well I was unaware of the Larry Davidson idea. I could change the chart if you like? But you will find that ToiBox resets automatically. When the routine is finished ToiBox is ready to go again. I have had many people tell me that spectators have found the gimmick on their KMB. ToiBox has nothing to find. The spectator can keep the box. Why not remove the chance all together of the spectator finding anything and do the routine ungimmicked like ToiBox does. Maybe the question that should be asked is what makes the gimmicked versions better then ToiBox? After showing ToiBox at the convention this week. Apart from the cleverness of the routines the biggest praise come from the fact that it was ungimmicked. No box on the market is as inexpensive, packs as small, performs as clean and has the versatility of ToiBox.

To give you an idea. You can fit 2 ToiBox tins comfortably inside a poker size card box. Now that's small!

Thanks guys, I'll be home in about 4 days and will have more info about the convention.

, Jonathan
Review King
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Quote:
On 2006-08-21 19:44, Jon Allen wrote:
Hi Chris,

I *think* you are talking to Jonathan. Seeing how he is Jonathan and I am Jon, would you mind differentiating between us? I looked back to see if I missed anything you may have asked me but I'm sure you were referring to Jonathan.

Cheers,
Jon




Hi Jon, I was talking to Jonathan. Sorry about that.

Jonathan, your chart is wrong. Don't change it for me, change it because it's the right thing to do.

Best,
Chris
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been"

..........John Greenleaf Whittier
Jon Allen
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Hi Jonathan,

Firstly, the chart is a very good idea. Not too many people would want to compare their product to others that do the same effect. You should be congratulated on producing the chart. There are some *major* errors on the chart though. It is extremely misleading and does not compare the boxes fairly. You should not have it on your site until you have corrected the errors. I mentioned some of the errors in a previous post.

You have said that all the boxes are a Shuttle Pass type effect but one claim for Toibox is that the “spectator can remove their own signed card. This seems to say that no shuttle pass is involved. If this is the case, why are the Simplex Card to Box and TDB not included? Some people may like the effect of a Card to Box but want to see variations of method. The big omission is Arthur’s Simplex Card to Box. It is a similar style of box and people on here have mentioned it before. You actually said in your last post, “No box on the market is as inexpensive, packs as small, performs as clean and has the versatility of ToiBox.” This is not true. Arthur’s box actually matches Toibox in every category in the chart and is a little cheaper. Any chart matching similar props should include it. Will you include it in the chart?

Regards,
Jon
Paragon 3D - the most incredible Card to Clear Box you will ever own. Be fooled here: http://youtu.be/GQxRZ1OGkUo
The Silent Treatment - Digital Edition: this iconic routine just got upgraded! Watch - http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=phTDUhX0m9o
Order the bar-raising DVD set 'Connection' at www.onlinemagicshop.co.uk
kammagic
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Gentleman,

TDB is very different then any of these boxes and does not belong on this chart. The Simplex box works on a different principal then the shuttle pass so I didn't include it on the chart. All the boxes on this chart use a shuttle pass. The chart is designed to show the benifits ToiBox has over other similar shuttle pass Kaps style Card To Box effects. It is not a chart designed as a buyers guide to all Card To Box effects because there are many more. I stuck with the ones that are most similar to ToiBox. I am not home right now so I can't change the chart. But I will update the KMB items that were suggested. I'll let you know when it has been updated and you guys can tell me all the mistakes I make then if it pleases you.

Thanks for the input, Jonathan K.
Jon Allen
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Okay, one question:

When someone removes their signed card from the Toibox box, which is a major effect as highlighted on the website, does it involve a shuttle pass?

Regards,
Jon
Paragon 3D - the most incredible Card to Clear Box you will ever own. Be fooled here: http://youtu.be/GQxRZ1OGkUo
The Silent Treatment - Digital Edition: this iconic routine just got upgraded! Watch - http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=phTDUhX0m9o
Order the bar-raising DVD set 'Connection' at www.onlinemagicshop.co.uk
kammagic
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Quote:
On 2006-08-22 19:37, Jon Allen wrote:
Okay, one question:

When someone removes their signed card from the Toibox box, which is a major effect as highlighted on the website, does it involve a shuttle pass?

Regards,
Jon


Yes, very cleverly it does. Smile
Jon Allen
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Quote:
On 2006-08-22 20:35, kammagic wrote:
Quote:
On 2006-08-22 19:37, Jon Allen wrote:
Okay, one question:

When someone removes their signed card from the Toibox box, which is a major effect as highlighted on the website, does it involve a shuttle pass?

Regards,
Jon


Yes, very cleverly it does. Smile


So does TDB Smile I guess they are comparable after all when it comes to 'signed card to box'.

Anyway, it's obviously up to you as to which boxes you compare Toibox to but you do need to compare them honestly.
Paragon 3D - the most incredible Card to Clear Box you will ever own. Be fooled here: http://youtu.be/GQxRZ1OGkUo
The Silent Treatment - Digital Edition: this iconic routine just got upgraded! Watch - http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=phTDUhX0m9o
Order the bar-raising DVD set 'Connection' at www.onlinemagicshop.co.uk
Tivoli
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Hi Jon

Thanks for your kind words concerning the chart....I think you're right Jon, Jonathan must do some corections on it.
Cheers
arthur
Arthur Tivoli
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www.arthurtivoli.com
kammagic
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Authur,

Corrections will be made when I get home. I would love to know all the details of your effect so I can add it to the chart. Maybe we could trade. I will send you a copy of ToiBox for a copy of Simplex.

Jon Allen,

The same offer goes out to you. I understand that yours is more expensive so I will gladly return it after checking out all the details. I think this will help clear up any assumptions we are making about each others product.

, Jonathan

PS: as I said before I am not home right now but will be in 2 days and could ship it out then.
Review King
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Jonathan Kamm, you've created a chart comparing other effects to your own creation. That chart is biased in your favor. And...the chart is wrong.

Will you stop selling the effect until the chart is updated to be accurate? No.

I could not endorse a product or inventor that conducts themselves in such a misleading way.
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been"

..........John Greenleaf Whittier
kammagic
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Quote:
On 2006-08-25 10:44, MagicChris wrote:
Jonathan Kamm, you've created a chart comparing other effects to your own creation. That chart is biased in your favor. And...the chart is wrong.

Will you stop selling the effect until the chart is updated to be accurate? No.

I could not endorse a product or inventor that conducts themselves in such a misleading way.


Chris,
The chart has been updated. If you see any inaccuracies please let me know. If the old chart still appears make sure you hit "refresh".
Remember the chart is not a "buyers guide" it is used to show the benefits that ToiBox has over similar products. Nothing misleading about it. Every statement is true. Its a common promotional tool used in advertising. It always highlights the product you are selling and not the other way around.

, Jonathan K.
meyegr
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Just a positivenote. I recieved this a couple weeks ago and I think it is great (chart or not).
kammagic
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Quote:
On 2006-08-25 12:16, meyegr wrote:
Just a positivenote. I recieved this a couple weeks ago and I think it is great (chart or not).


Thanks,

I think it's great too. Don't worry about the people who feel the need to attack it. It comes with the territory.

, Jonathan
Jon Allen
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Nobody has been attacking the box itself; rather the way it is built up and promoted as something absolutely awesome. Jonathan is perfectly entitled to produce a chart to highlight several other similar products. There were errors and inaccuracies in it as pointed out by a couple of people. Jonathan said he would correct them. However, rather than changing a NO to YES when an error was pointed out (for example, that the KMB can be reset in front of people and can be shown empty or that Astonish Mints is also a regular looking tin) the *categories* either changed or, worse, were dropped altogether.

The categories were fine while Toibox ruled supreme in them but as soon as any of the others invoked a YES, the category was changed or scrapped, except a couple for Tommy Wonder's Box. By all means, show your product has some advantages in construction, method, or appearance but don't change the wording of the category simply to suit your cause. It really is okay to say that others can be reset in front of people or that another box can be shown empty; they may not have other benefits. As an example, to change a category from “Shown empty” to “Shown truly empty” just so other boxes are perceived as inferior is pretty weak. As I said in my PM, the KMB *is* truly empty as well. Just how much examination of a prop are you going for??? There was a category of being able to be set up in front of the audience. When it was pointed out that each box listed can be set up in front of people, that particular attribute was dropped.

Claims are made that “No box on the market is as inexpensive, packs as small, performs as clean and has the versatility of ToiBox.” This is not true as Arthur’s box matches it. You said, “Every statement is true.” KMB *can* be repeated with no reset. It can also be handed out for examination before and afterwards.

I have no qualms with Toibox itself; nobody is attacking the prop as you will see from all the previous posts. It’s a tin with some routines. What is wrong is the total disregard, respect and false advertising that has been shown towards other boxes and the unwillingness to address certain issues raised by people.

I’d go with Arthur’s Simplex Card to Box for that price range. Here’s a quick comparison: pretty much everything is exactly the same except the look, material of the box and the price.

Jon
Paragon 3D - the most incredible Card to Clear Box you will ever own. Be fooled here: http://youtu.be/GQxRZ1OGkUo
The Silent Treatment - Digital Edition: this iconic routine just got upgraded! Watch - http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=phTDUhX0m9o
Order the bar-raising DVD set 'Connection' at www.onlinemagicshop.co.uk
kammagic
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Quote:
On 2006-08-25 16:04, Jon Allen wrote:
Nobody has been attacking the box itself; rather the way it is built up and promoted as something absolutely awesome. Jonathan is perfectly entitled to produce a chart to highlight several other similar products. There were errors and inaccuracies in it as pointed out by a couple of people. Jonathan said he would correct them. However, rather than changing a NO to YES when an error was pointed out (for example, that the KMB can be reset in front of people and can be shown empty or that Astonish Mints is also a regular looking tin) the *categories* either changed or, worse, were dropped altogether.

The categories were fine while Toibox ruled supreme in them but as soon as any of the others invoked a YES, the category was changed or scrapped, except a couple for Tommy Wonder's Box. By all means, show your product has some advantages in construction, method, or appearance but don't change the wording of the category simply to suit your cause. It really is okay to say that others can be reset in front of people or that another box can be shown empty; they may not have other benefits. As an example, to change a category from “Shown empty” to “Shown truly empty” just so other boxes are perceived as inferior is pretty weak. As I said in my PM, the KMB *is* truly empty as well. Just how much examination of a prop are you going for??? There was a category of being able to be set up in front of the audience. When it was pointed out that each box listed can be set up in front of people, that particular attribute was dropped.

Claims are made that “No box on the market is as inexpensive, packs as small, performs as clean and has the versatility of ToiBox.” This is not true as Arthur’s box matches it. You said, “Every statement is true.” KMB *can* be repeated with no reset. It can also be handed out for examination before and afterwards.

I have no qualms with Toibox itself; nobody is attacking the prop as you will see from all the previous posts. It’s a tin with some routines. What is wrong is the total disregard, respect and false advertising that has been shown towards other boxes and the unwillingness to address certain issues raised by people.

I’d go with Arthur’s Simplex Card to Box for that price range. Here’s a quick comparison: pretty much everything is exactly the same except the look, material of the box and the price.

Jon



Jon this entire post is an attack on me and my effect. Why do you insist on doing this? The topics on the chart that I felt could be argued either way I simply eliminated. Like taking a doll away from 2 arguing children. that's all. Arthur doesn't attack me becuase he knows he has a good product that speaks for itself. You on the other hand feel threatened and instead of believing in your own product you have decided to belittle the competition. This has been blatantly obvious through out this entire thread. The more you attack it the more plublicity I get. So if you want to continue go right ahead. I believe in my product and my service to my customers. I do have an awesome product and the chart explains what benifits it has over other products which are many.

Jon, you have a wonderful product and as its creator you need to believe in it and not resort to this childish behavior of belittling the competition.

If you don't like my chart then you can always make your own.

, Jonathan
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