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DaiBato Veteran user 310 Posts |
For me, the problem with hypnosis is its connection to the occult.
For instance, in William W. Hewitt's book, 'Hypnosis For Beginners', the topics of past-life regression and tuning into one's psychic abilities are given serious discussion. Now this may be good for attracting the public to stage hypnosis shows or for gullible customers going to a certified hypnotherapist instead of a psychic for answers to questions, but how can I take hypnosis seriously if it has some of its experts spouting such twaddle? Dai Bato |
hkwiles Special user Howard Wiles 797 Posts |
Dai..its dangerous on here to doubt psychic abilities and phenomenon..its all absolutely real..Honestly..I kid you not..trust me..... really..........
Oh ..and so is mind reading and PK.... Where are you jimtron? come out, come out wherever you are Howard |
Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Howard let me help.
It is bad to doubt what you don't know. You have no idea if it is or isn't twaddle. I take no position either way on it, but at least I could if I wanted too.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
hkwiles Special user Howard Wiles 797 Posts |
It certainly is twaddle though Danny, unless you can show me otherwise.
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DaiBato Veteran user 310 Posts |
Howard, my view is that, if past life regression or psychic ability were real, someone in history would have exploited his/her psychic talents and made a buck (or quid) off of their abilities; in fact they would have made millions.
I take the view, as would James Randi, that someone would have come forward and collected Randi's reward money by now. For instance: Uri Geller is a publicity genius, but not a genuine psychic. James Randi has expounded on this topic in great detail. Dai Bato |
hkwiles Special user Howard Wiles 797 Posts |
Exactly Dai, and how come no-one famous ever makes contact through the psychics ?only aunt madge or someone whose name begins with R, or is it B, or does it sound like B and on and on and on....
Howard |
Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Howard as usual you miss the point.
Dai, well I will explain it to you hopefully you will get it. What Howard is missing is YOUR belief in anything is irrelivant. What YOU think is right or twaddle frankley dosn't matter. Like it or not your audience when you do hypnosis, and to a large extent mentalism, is composed largly of people with some belief in the occult. Heck most of them make fantastic subjects because of their ability to imagine abstract concepts. Now when you do shows, which is your point right to do shows or even if your doing clinical work, people will come up and talk to you. So then what do you do when somene says something about hypnosis and past life regression? Do you belittle their position as obviously Howard does and tell them it is all "Twaddle" unless you can show me otherwise? Well if you wish any sort of success in the business let me tell you that your answer should be no. So why not do the research and find out exactly what these people are talking about and converse with them on some level at least? To belittle them as Howard has tried here, will not get them A) buying a ticket to another show B) get them to buy after show products C) get them to return or D) have them tell people how great your show was. Belittle them and trust me, they will tell anyone within the sound of their voice how horrible you are. So yea there is a connection to the occult. So what? My suggestion is to learn what it is and when necessary learn to converse about it. Making people feel stupid for the way they see the world, well it is simply bad business. Randi, does his work under the guise of DEBUNKING, so he is helping those who are being scammed in one way or another. You are trying to learn how to present a show for entertainment, and it is tough enough to get started, why start out by alienating a large part of your audience? Notice how the issue of my "belief" in the paranormal never is mentioned? That is because it is irrelivant. However what Howard dosn't seem to uderstand is the way you treat OTHERS beliefs is quite relevant. Take the attitude he does with me here, and you lose customers plain and simple. Not good business.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
suspectacts Elite user Boston 493 Posts |
Danny,
I'm not sure others will immediately see the subtley and pragmatism in your position, but I appreciate it. Why is it that people demand that you respect their faith-based beliefs but consider others beliefs ridiculous? "how can I take hypnosis seriously if it has some of its experts spouting such twaddle?" What about Einstein or the Dali Lama? Would you dismiss their thoughts just becuase they believed in something that others would call 'twaddle?' I am an atheist, yet I greatly respect and admire the writings of C.S. Lewis and other chr(stian thinkers. And in daily life, It would be foolish and counter productive to challenge everyone I meet about their faith. How is this any different? Hypnosis is a process, not a set of beliefs. And if you don't trust an author because of what he writes, find another book, not another topic! (Unless it's Dianetics). And what about things like heightened intuition? Books like Blink confirm that our brain is up to all kinds of things that we are unaware of. Science is just catching up with how the brain works. Be wary of what you condemn as twattle. Remember before 1950 most people didn't even believe in the sub-conscious - Most people still don't really understand what we mean by this. Respectfully peter gross PS T. Boone Pickens has made billions off his 'hunches'. How much more money would you need as proof? |
DaiBato Veteran user 310 Posts |
Danny and Peter:
You are both right about treating people with respect; I was only thinking out loud on this forum for information and to start a discussion. I would never mock an audience member for their beliefs. I was just being honest because this forum is the place to exchange ideas. Peter, you are right that mankind has only exposed the tip of the iceberg regarding the human mind's abilities. So just consider my original post as something discussed among hypnotists, not for airing to the public at large. Dai Bato |
Christophercarter Regular user 132 Posts |
From a pragmatic standpoint, I don't think it would often be good policy to tell somebody who approaches you after a show that their notions are "twaddle," but I do think it's possible to explain your position or outline your areas of disagreement in a friendly manner. It isn't necessary to simply agree with every idea presented, regardless of evidence, and I think in areas where you find you have serious ethical qualms, it probably isn't a good idea. You're better off being true to what you believe is right, imo. However, it should go without saying that you will always be better off if you treat your customers respectfully.
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Strangelittleman Regular user Sydney Aus 184 Posts |
While I find it interesting that a huge number of the Hypnotherapist/hypnotists I have met are pagan/occultist/psychic's/shineyhappypeopleholdinghands I have never really considered the connection as important.
Although your belief in phenomenon such as past-life may be completely the opposite of the individual you are working with, does this in anyway compromise your work with that individual would be my question? Oh, and past-life/psychic abilities are not occult as such...more "new age". |
Bill Hallahan Inner circle New Hampshire 3222 Posts |
Anything that regresses back to before death is considered occult by some. The dictionary refers to the supernatural, but since regressions involve someone who is deceased, the ambiguity between reincarnation and communication with a spirit makes past life regression an occult occurence for some. Also, it tracks the passage of sentience through death, so it is seen as supernatural, and thus occult.
Personally, I don't believe in hypnotic regression to an earlier life. I think that the first case where hypnosis was said to be used for past life regression was in a book named, "The Search for Bridey Murphy." I read this when I was a teenager. It about a modern woman who was hypnotized and regressed to be Bridey Murphy, a young woman in Ireland from a few generations back. I am skeptical of this, and I hold the position espoused at The Skeptics Dictionary - Bridey Murphy. Martin Gardner states something that is easy to demonstrate in the last paragraph there. Presentations with occult phenomenon are problematic, because several major religions state to avoid the occult. Most of them don't claim that it's fake or it's real, they merely state to avoid it. In the U.S., this is a significant cross-section of a performers potential audience. It's ironic that the people who avoid the occult for religious reasons are more likely to go see an occult show if they know it's all fake, but many will avoid the occult regardless of their opinion regarding the authenticity of a presentation.
Humans make life so interesting. Do you know that in a universe so full of wonders, they have managed to create boredom. Quite astonishing.
- The character of ‘Death’ in the movie "Hogswatch" |
Lee Darrow V.I.P. Chicago, IL USA 3588 Posts |
And a therapist who uses past life regression will tell you that, if the modality works for fixing the problems for the client, it doesn't matter, as far as the problem is concerned, whether the regression was "real" or not, so long as the relief of the problem IS.
Many therapists who use past life regression as a therapeutic modality will state that it may or may not be real, but even if the regression is only a metaphor for the real world issues that the client isn't willing to face head-on consciously, if the modailty WORKS for them, then it WORKS and that is what is important. As far as stage hypnosis is concerned, past life regression is usually about as interesting to present to an audience as a demonstration of paint drying in a dark room, however. Unless one is working to an audience at a psychic fair or New Age conference of some kind. At least, that's been my experience of it. But therapeuically, if it works for helping the client alleviate a problem, then by all means use it if that's the only thing that will work for that client. Other people's mileage may vary, but that's where I tend to stand. Lee Darrow, C.H.
http://www.leedarrow.com
<BR>"Because NICE Matters!" |
DaiBato Veteran user 310 Posts |
And it seems that that is where hypnotherapy's great strength lies: the client believes in it and it helps him/her with the problem at hand.
Dai Bato |
leapinglizards Inner circle 1263 Posts |
I would say that is true of any and every kind of change work, from medicine to magic and Psychiatry to herbalism
Leaping Lizards!!! Who knew it was possible.
<BR> <BR>www.LeapingLizardsMagic.com |
Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Dai you are doing research in the wrong place. Find books. They have far more indepth help than we can provide one post at a time.
What you describe is true. BUT why do you think the money in your pocket has value? Is it backed by gold any more? Let me help, no. The only reason it is valuable is because the government says it is, and YOU believe it is. PERIOD. (I site the stock market crash and depression as proof.) Funny how many things this is true for.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
Lee Darrow V.I.P. Chicago, IL USA 3588 Posts |
Dai, the difference is that you are describing the placebo effect, where a neutral substance can have as much effect as some untested medicines (but NOT as much as the ones that HAVE been tested, in general) and hypnosis, which, via high range PET scans, can be shown to acutally change the way the brain works - and it IS a different pattern than what occurs in placebo response.
And the effects for a person seem to be more lasting when challenged than those of a placebo as well. As more and more new imaging research is coming to light, we are learning that hypnosis IS a discrete brain state and that it does actually change, or assist in helping the client TO change, the way that their brain processes incoming stimuli and how they respond to it. Lee Darrow, C.H.
http://www.leedarrow.com
<BR>"Because NICE Matters!" |
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