Take them to someone who does "Bronzing." I don't think you will be able to put the lids on the cups after, it's done, though.

In this case the lids are critical. The cups with lids make containers for the balls. The fun part of all this is building in a shim and rattle mechanism. Think two D's with something sliding between to rattle when shook in the right direction.

Yeah all this because it really looks strange to carry empty ice cream containers. Especially when they are used to contain a small ball-like object. I almost wish small sponges looked more like cherries.

Frustrated in NY,

Jon

Jon
take some 1" sponges and matching red thread, sew a small cross stitch knot on one side sponge and needle it through to the otherside. Pull the thread just taught enough to make a small dimple. If you go to a craftstore ie Michaels, AC Moore etc, you can find faux fruit with stems, the rough tip of the stem can be inserted and will hold until you want to remove the stem.

I've made sponge Tomatoes using the same method and it works great.

Jake

Cool idea! I'll have to file that one away in my memory banks. Thanks!

For some reason that reminds me of the Rezvani tomatoes.

Anyone good at making sponge rocks?

Jonathan,

Try gray weather stripping foam. You should be able to trim it to any shape you want.

Chris

Interesting, Jonathan, I'm working on Haagan Dazs cups, too. So far, I have 487 available. Make that 488.

Up you are saving them too? the four ounce size? I have about a dozen here. Can you get them silvered? (need the lid too)

If you want, let's discuss the specifics via PM or email.... bizarre territory.

Go to an art store and buy some ALUMINUM paint. I used to use it to paint over car bumpers after we gave them a cheap spray paint job...to restore that "chrome" look.

Electroless nickel plating is a non pours plating method which adheres better and last longer but you will normally only find it in bigger industrial cities. It is superior to all other methods.

I would like to see someone get electroless nickel plate to adhere to a plastic / wax coated paper container.

The container needs to be a conductor. Nice try.

In addition, Electroless Nickel Plate is a Matt finish, not a mirror finish. This can be modified to an extent, by running the parts through additional processes / baths.

Caswell plating has all sorts of do it yourself plating, but the wax on the cups is going to pose a big problem. A lot of arts and crafts store sell what they call Sterling Silver spray paint, it's really not but has a nice finish, the only metalic spray paint I have ever really found to work was a copper paint.

Was on the phone for about 90 minutes or so with Ben & Jerry's legal dept. I bascially told them that their containers were something that could be used for magic and wanted to know what the copyright issue was with the containers. What it boiled down to is this, as long as there is no image, mention or implication of Ben & Jerry's ice cream, there was no copyright or patent on the actual shape of the container.

It would not be much work to create the container and lid out of aluminum. I wouldn't venture to make it out of brass or copper due to the cost, but aluminum wouldn't be all that expensive to do. I'd be willing to take on this venture if there was enough interest in the containers with lids. I'm not trying to compete with Jim Riser's Ramsey cups, those are Jim's baby's but if there is an interest for containers with lids, might be worthwhile persuing.

Jake

Hey everyone, thanks for you input on cups. I recently purchased the PF SS cups from RNTII magic and couldn't be happier! they were a joy to work with! I recieved the cups in 2 days and the packaging was immaculate! THANKS RNTII

There is a way to plate on paper, but you have to fudge to do it. It's done by coating the paper with a conductor, such as graphite. The bond is only as good as the bond of the graphite to the paper, though.

Thanks Bill, and Jake.

I would have to experiment with even very thin walled metal cups for the Ramsay routine. Part of the fun is being able to do it without a closeup pad. The cup toss load move is a very touchy thing all by itself. It has the advantage of seeming to be a casual drop of the cop onto the table. That's why I went quiet when Jim Riser suggested metal cups. The Haagen Dazs/Ben and Jerry's cups with lids seem fine for the trick. It's the bizarre presentation that would benefit from them looking like impossibly light metal.

Frustrated in NY, I'll ask for Jakes number offline.

I think the Ramsay routine is terrific and had a set of cups custom spun by Mike Brazil years and years ago.

Since my name has been dragged in to this discussion, I'll make a few comments. In the 40+ years I performed magic I never once worked a gig where the tables were not covered with a table cloth or at the minimum a place mat. Many places used both at their tables. Admittedly I chose to perform at higher class locations as the pay was better. This means that I never saw an uncovered table.

Ramsay performed his routine on a bare wood surface. If a performer feels compelled to replicate the "exact" Ramsay routine, this performer would need to carry around a board as the working surface. I do not walk around carrying boards. If you are performing in a pizza place or in the kitchen for the workers, I suppose you would find your bare surface. Since I am a very practical person, I prefer to carry around only the cups and not a board. The extreme lightness of the paper cups is only important to one performing on a bare surface. With a table cloth or place mat on the table, light weight metal cups work just fine for the routine. Since Jonathan has never tried the routine with metal cups, he is not really in a position to judge their usefulness. His viewpoint is all guess work - theory. As I have indicated on the info sheet that comes with my Ramsay style cups, they are the most delicate cups I have ever made. This translates into "rather light weight". Any thinner and the cups would be impractical. These cups are sold out anyway so this is not a sales pitch.

Now, since Jonathan insists upon using cheap lightweight paper cups, I'll explain how to improve the situation with them. First of all, not all such paper containers are wax coated. Many are coated with a thin plastic film. This makes a huge difference when trying to make them look like metal. These plastic coated containers could be spray painted with no problems; but there is another way. If I wanted to spiffy up such humble containers, I'd carefully measure the two diameters of the cup and plug them in to a cone pattern software program. This program will output a pattern for the required cone. This pattern would be printed out and transferred to self adhesive mylar film (available in sheets or rolls). The film would be cut with the correct curves with a little length added on the end of the pattern for an overlap at the seam. The cut mylar would be carefully wrapped around the cone portion of the cup to give a better appearance. This would add very little to the total wieght of the cups and still allow working on the board that Jonathan wants to carry around with him. The cups would appear to be metal. The required plastic coated cups may be obtained from a distributor of such items.

It is my personal feeling that we should try to build upon the work of those who went before us and adapt/improve things whenever we can to meet current performing conditions. Making such changes or experiments is called risk taking. Sometimes the risks pay off in improved props and performances. Sometimes they do not. Often it is merely the individual performer who makes the difference. Knocking items without trying them is certainly not the way to progress.
Jim

Sorry, Jonathan, I was just teasing. I thought the 487, 488 count of ice cream cups would give it away.

It is an interesting idea, however.

OK, here is what I assume based on "when and where" -- My bet is Ramsay BRUSHED aluminum paint as spray cans were probably not invented yet.

That is what I plan to do as I am selling my custom made Ramsay cups (made just for me) to the Cups & Balls Museum.

My feeling is if you want to "do Ramsay" you should be accurate and do it like he did... PERIOD.