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Scott Xavier
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I was laughing at these words today as I watched some old sightings clips.

What's supernatural? Nudity? How can something be super natural. Or Outside of Normal? If everything is nature and nature is normal....
Philemon Vanderbeck
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Su·per·nat·u·ral (adj.)
1. Of or relating to existence outside the natural world.
2. Attributed to a power that seems to violate or go beyond natural forces.
3. Of or relating to a deity.
4. Of or relating to the immediate exercise of divine power; miraculous.
5. Of or relating to the miraculous.
Professor Philemon Vanderbeck
That Creepy Magician
"I use my sixth sense to create the illusion of possessing the other five."
jimtron
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Bending a spoon with your hand is natural. Actually bending a spoon with your mind (without using mentalism or other deceptive techniques) is supernatural, or paranormal. Human beings are natural, ghosts are supernatural.
Slim King
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What about bending a spoon in Icecream? I do that all of the time!
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
Jim-Callahan
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Yes Scott,

I do rememeber a fellow named Jack Galloway (Banned) making a post several times to the same effect.

Good to see some follow his thoughts still.

No has yet explained how he did his last demonstration before being found by me slumped over in a booth.

Oh sure some guys pitched stones at what they feared and made guesses but I will put up ten grand to prove what those who participated was real.

So strange the guys who think themselfs clever prove themselfs idiots with their words.

Jim.

To quote Mark Twain "It is a small mind indead that can think of only one way to spell a word"

Yep I spell it as I see fit from here on out!

H.O,A-X


Posted: Jul 17, 2006 9:19pm
---------------------------------------------
Jimtron,

Man you have not a clue.

Good god man do you not get the idea!!!

C'mon get hip to the real deal.
Think consider and get it.

Jim

H.O.A-X
“I can make Satan’s devils dance like fine gentlemen across the stage of reality”.
jimtron
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Quote:
On 2006-07-17 21:19, Jim-Callahan wrote:
Jimtron,

Man you have not a clue.

Good god man do you not get the idea!!!

C'mon get hip to the real deal.
Think consider and get it.

Jim

H.O.A-X


What, specifically did I get wrong? How would you define supernatural and paranormal?
Dannydoyle
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Slim I have the same problem with ice cream.

I have to switch to soft serve
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Tony Iacoviello
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Slim, Danny:

I have the same problem with soup.

Tony
Scott Xavier
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If ghosts exist, then they would be of the universe or of the world, so then they would be a natural phenomena, maybe they are rare like those bigfeet and lochness monsters, but as Doc Shiels pointed out they do exist and are natural. So they exist. That means their natural. So how can they ever be outside of natural or unnatural?

Yeah I believe Jim did inspire this topic, but the word Supernatural just jumped into my head as I realized that something SUPER would mean that it's overly something, and overly natural is what NUDITY? Weird how my mind makes a rational point into pervertiveness.
Jim-Callahan
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Jimtron,

If you percive it it becomes of this reality.

That is why I think the JREF deal is a load.
(I hope you may get it now why so many have sided with Jack in the opinion that the challange is a scam. In his opinion.)

Scott, has made the point pretty well in the post above.
As did a totaly digital fellow named Jack that you engaged in debate more than once.

So was he (Jack) supernatural since he lept from my skull and into your reality?
Nope Jack, was and is of this reality just as you and I are.

Just as Ghosts and ice cream as Scott, Slim, and Tony point out.

Have a good night guys.

Jim

H.O.A-X
“I can make Satan’s devils dance like fine gentlemen across the stage of reality”.
ElliottB
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Are you certain that everything is nature? Maybe some things can overpower nature and function contrary to its laws.
jimtron
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Quote:
If ghosts exist, then they would be of the universe or of the world, so then they would be a natural phenomena, maybe they are rare like those bigfeet and lochness monsters, but as Doc Shiels pointed out they do exist and are natural. So they exist. That means their natural.


Not everyone would agree that ghosts exist.

For more info on natural vs. supernatural, here's an article.

From above article:
Quote:
The supernatural (Latin: super- "exceeding" + nature) refers to forces and phenomena which are beyond ordinary scientific or any other type of measurement. Concepts in the supernatural domain are closely related to concepts in religious spirituality and metaphysics.

The term "supernatural" is often used interchangeably with paranormal or preternatural — the latter typically limited to an adjective for describing abilities which appear to exceed possible bounds.

Supernatural claims assert phenomena beyond the realm of current scientific understanding, and may likewise be in direct conflict with scientific concepts of possibility, plausibility, or reality in general. The supernatural concept is generally identified with religion or other belief systems — though there is much debate as to whether a supernatural aspect is necessary for religion, or that religion is necessary for holding a concept of the supernatural.

Those denying the plausibility of the supernatural typically claim that the only events which cannot be studied scientifically are those which cannot be perceived by any means. If an event claimed to be supernatural really has happened, it can therefore be studied scientifically and is not supernatural.



Quote:
...and overly natural is what NUDITY?


What is "overly natural" about nudity?



Quote:
Are you certain that everything is nature?

Nope.

Quote:
Maybe some things can overpower nature and function contrary to its laws.

Maybe.
Scott Xavier
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Na·ture P Pronunciation Key (nchr)
n.

The material world and its phenomena.
--SEE PHENOMENA is covered by nature. Since natural law is subject to our perception and scientific knowledge at that time, nature is somewhat subjective at our current level of knowledge and natural law is ever changing as our scientific knowledge of the universe changes.

The forces and processes that produce and control all the phenomena of the material world: the laws of nature.
-- Ever changing as our knowledge of the universe grows

The world of living things and the outdoors: the beauties of nature.
--All beasts are natural including ghosts etc....

A primitive state of existence, untouched and uninfluenced by civilization or artificiality: couldn't tolerate city life anymore and went back to nature.
--Beings such as lochness monster, ghosts, and big foot then would be included in this theory.

Elliott, perhaps that which you see over powering nature isn't overpowering it at all, merely operating at a state of knowledge or existance that we havent discovered yet. I can guarantee that there is a lot to physics that we do not understand yet and may appear to be magic to our primative brains....
Dannydoyle
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Great lets have a fake philisophy discussion to make ourselvs seem smarter.

Provide theories, or laws preferably actually, and then we won't have so much nonsense spewed.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Jim-Callahan
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Ok Danny if you percive it, is it of this reality?

Yes or no.

If you say no the ball is in your court to explain why not.

Jim

H.O.A-X


Posted: Jul 17, 2006 10:52pm
---------------------------------------------
Also I love the fake philisophy line Danny.
Made me smile.

It is all subjective is it not?

Man I like some of this when you guys get to thinking.

Jim

H,O,
A-X
“I can make Satan’s devils dance like fine gentlemen across the stage of reality”.
chichi711
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I have been apart of some really lame arguments on the Café‚ before. This has to rank up there in the top 2 or 3. Seriously what is even the point of this conversation?
Phil C
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My answer would be simple:

LANGUAGE IS FLAWED.
It was, It is, and It will always be this way.
Scott Xavier
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Flawed language? Its the best we have imho, those hand gestures just don't cut it.

If you delve into the meanings above, you can see some great reasons or presentations as to why we do what we do. Man I love this stuff, its bringing back Dr. Zodiac....

Primitive theories on supernatural powers came from the need to explain the occurances that happened around us. Take for instance thunder and lightning. To primitive man it was the spear of the g-ds and zues and such were born out of a need to control and understand the unknown. Science has come around and debunked the zues theory as proving scientific models as to why lightning exists.

Now I don't know about the rest of you, but I am more apt to believe in the scientific knowledge then the supernatural zues that has no evidence. As for science proving what the lightning is, then it became nature not supernatural.

Peace...
Dr Spektor
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Here is an analogy I often tell my students - sad but true...

Its psychiatry when we don't fully understand a condition and treat symptoms with things we only partially understand and use guiding principles and techniques that have as many exceptions to the rules as there are rules - and it is that constant acceptance of the reality of ambiguity and the unknown - as soon as something becomes more "understandable" i.e. we find a genetic link, deliniate a treatment that works 99% of the time for it, etc. i.e. a medical cause - such conditions are somehow removed from "psychiatry" and thrust into internal medicine or other more "accepted" areas of medicine e.g. endocrinology, genetics, surgery etc.... and yet - as I always say, if you know 100% what is going on you have probably missed the boat Smile.... many of those conditions so-called explained have many different elements to it that still involve psychological and other processes....!

The analogy being is that "supernatural" etc. phenomena are that way because we haven't been able to explain them in a way that makes sense in a definitive way - and since the "supernatural" events often involve not only scientific reasons but peoples' REACTIONS to them that then bring in belief systems, interpretations etc... that is where the "paranormal" seems to exist... i.e. one can say it was an infrasound or subseismal rumblings for a poltergeist situation but the people experiencing it might say "but why did it happen here? Now? So what if it a natural phenomena.... why now?".... skeptics will now explain it by the Law of Big Numbers.... which is also true... but the why here and now is a human experience that is also "true" from a different vantage point.....

Like Scott said - lightning became "science" once it was explained - but why did the lightning kill so and so? Why is it still the sumbol of Power? Why did they choose that for Captain Marvel to be a Magic Symbol? etc. etc.

Argh, I can go on forever on this. This is one of my favourite topics - I've got full moon papers, demon papers, full moon papers, and in October a Vampire paper coming out all on the nebulous zone of the paranormal and psychiatry Smile!!! One day I plan to do an entire book on ghosts...

Ciao fellows...great thread! Seems this belongs to spooky forum - Scott - I know you are a mentalist but you must secretly have bizarroblood....
"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
Scott Xavier
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"Scott - I know you are a mentalist but you must secretly have bizarroblood...."
--Wait until you see my next collaborative DVD, muhahahhaha!

"but why did it happen here? Now? So what if it a natural phenomena.... why now?"
--It's the human psyche that looks for reasoning in nothing. I am reminded of the martian pyramids and faces that people see on naturally occuring rock formation. It doesn't mean that because some one looks and sees a face, that it is one. It just means that we spend out lives hoping wishing and wanting to believe. The X-Files was so true!

And I am not discrediting ghosts or even a supreme deity, instead I sam stating that if they exist theres nothing magical or mystical about them, rather that they must exist in this universe some how, and if they do, then they are natural and as normal as a quasar or another NEVER seen phenomena, BLACK HOLES! Scientists argued about the existance of dark matter and black holes for years, they knew the theory was sound, but its impossible to see one.

Heres why:
"Black holes cannot be observed directly and therefore cannot be 'discovered'.
However, the indirect evidence for two kinds of black hole is now overwhelming - those of a few solar masses produced by supernovae and much larger ones at the center of some galaxies.

The existence of bodies with gravitational fields strong enough to allow nothing to escape has been a topic of speculation for hundreds of years. Einstein's general theory of relativity (published in 1916) predicts just the kinds of object we are now inferring.

Perhaps the first object to be generally recognized as a black hole is the X-ray binary star Cygnus X-1. Its effect on its companion star suggested as early as 1971 that it must be a compact object with a mass too high for it to be a neutron star. (That was 2 years after the American astronomer John Wheeler coined the term 'black hole')."
--So as you can see this is a force that we can not see, but know exists such as a deity. So as such, the black hole is within our scientific range of grasp. Imagine speaking of this to Newton!!! It would seem like a monster or deity who eats matter and planets....

Now the same can be said for all things that "exist". If they exist, they are natural and perhaps not normally occuring, but a part of nature.
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