I've read books about the old traveling illusion shows and how they carried their own flats and even their own curtains. My question is, what is expected of an illusion show in today's market in terms of staging? I would assume I would have to have my sound systems, music and voice. But would I also need my own lighting? I don't think curtains or staging are expected. Or am I wrong?

Finally, could anyone give me a ball park range of what a one hour illusion show goes for these days. Thank you.

Jim

James,

I did a write up here on the Café, on costs and requirements. One should be self-contained.

On another post was this excellent video showing a Spencer's illusion show being set up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQQnGvrPS4A



How much do you want to spend?

Here is a list of hidden expenses, look for ways to cut costs.

If you commit to a self contained Illusion Show, the investment is quite expensive.

Consider the costs:

Van/Truck ($30,000)
Trailer ($4,000 Plus)
Illusions ($2,000 average each 4 required: $8,000)
Magic Effects or Illusionettes ($2,500 estimate)
Assistant ($150 per performance and rehearsals)
Stage Hand ($150 per performance and rehearsals)
Lighting System ($1,000-$2,000)
Sound System ($1,000-$2,000)
ShowTech ($2,400)
BackDrops ($1,000-$2,000)
Professional Photos ($1,000)
Advertising and Marketing (10-20 percent of gross receipts)
Concession Stand Popcorn Maker, Candy Cotton, Juicer ($2,000-$5,000)
Magic Kits (Backroom Sales Item)
Novelties (Backroom Sales Item)
Gas, Food, & Lodging
Liability Insurance
Medical Insurance
Pension Plan (401k)
Equipment Rider on your Auto Insurance
Storage Facility for Unused Illusions.

The above is a self contained Illusion show which can be peformed in any hall, gym, or stage. Do you need all of these, NO, however, you will need to consider all of these at some time.

See: http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......;forum=7

Den,
Wonderful information. Thank you!

Jim

-------Lighting System ($1,000-$2,000)

I think it's WAY more than that.

Ryan joyce has sets of lights, one of them costs 2500 and he has four of those, plus all the other lights he has.....

-------Concession Stand Popcorn Maker, Candy Cotton, Juicer ($2,000-$5,000)
-------Magic Kits (Backroom Sales Item)
-------Novelties (Backroom Sales Item)

Techinically, on those, you get more money form, soo...

This depends on the theatre you book. When I book all my show I ensure the theatres are equipped with sound and lights. Nowadays, most of the lighting is intelligent and you just bring your programmed sequences on a disk. Most theatres operate that are on the higher scale. These theatres are generally termed as Roadhouses. Whereas they are avaiable to rent as is. That being said, I have to hire the in-house lighting guy to program the lights and do a couple of run throughs. I have my show timecoded. This ensures tech help wont miss their cues. A theatre of this calibre will charge around $2000-$3000 a night to rent. I have my own lighting and sound but find its to much of a burden to carry it around and set it up. Ryan Joyce, as mentioned above, is self contained. The benefit to this is he can rent theatres and halls that are signifficantly cheaper (around $750-$1500). You should decided which route you would like to take and evaluate what best suits your needs and budgets.

My Illusion show as stated about is a Self-contained fundraising illusion show with a 'Back of the Room' (BOR) concession stand. It's an out lay with a means of brining in money.

As for Lighting, A simple 8 par lighting system & Stands which does not include a Spotlight, that's another $500-$1,000. Through in full custom backdrops and you're increasing the price significantly.

The question wasn't asked how cheap or how expensive, only what it entails. There are also lot of little costs such as advertising, marketing materials, etc.

I believe each of ryans itelegant lights were around the cost of $1,500.00

In other words if you have to ask, you probably can't afford it.

I've spent over $20k for my lighting system and although it's great for my shows, it's not a real big setup.

Here's a variety of expenses that adds to the lights.
Hazer = $1200
DMX software = $1000
DMX cables for 15 fixtures = $400
Light Truss (nothing fancy) = $200
Backdrop = $900

This doesn't even include the light fixtures themselves which range from $250 to +15k each.

Don't even think about running lights without a good quality hazer. Not a glorified fogger that is called a hazer, but a real hazer. Also, the lights don't do what you want them to do without software and a PC/Laptop to run it from. Nothing worse than having great lights on a great stage and you can't control them.

Lights need to be elevated and there may not be anything at the venue to raise them on so have your own trusses. I use heavy duty tripods for the front and a lightbar/truss for the rear. Not the perfect setup but it's what I have at the moment.

For a traveling illusion show, you must have your own lights, sound and curtains/backdrop. Also a variety of cables, extension cords and multi-strips to distribute power. Venues vary in size and so should your set.

Pretty sure, 2500, no?

No cause I was told (sumone who will remain nameless unless he speaks up on the Café) that ryan made a profit after travel and paying the crew for quatar that he made around 6,000.00 and then spent it all on 4 intelegent lights

Well probably $2500 canadian...which is only like $1500 USD...just kidding...we know its like 50 cents....LOL


Kevin

James, my brother,

The ANSWER toy our questions is: "DEPENDS".

Depends on whether you are going into:
- The "touring" illusion show...
- The Corporate Illusion Business...
- School or Church Shows...
- Fund Rasing or Contracted & Paid events...
- Indoor or Outdoor shows and venues...

Plan of having your own:
- Trucks and bus...
- Production staff...
- Stable or traveling venue...
- Stock of illusions... how many... IF needed at all!

Which begs the question, exactly what sort of show OUTCOME do you want, need & desire?

Who is doing the:
- Advancing...
- Marketing...
- Promotions...
- Public relations...
- Ticketing...
- Selling...
- Logistics...

...and of course ALL the “…etc’s” as well as all the variables of the each and every one of the questions asked.

Could you give us more insight and details as to your desired outcome, venues, target and so on, then maybe we can take an accurate stab at your question so as to offer up a real answer and solutions for you brother.

I am at your service and In HIS Service,
Deano
<><

I am seriously learning this the HARD *** WAY like you wouldn't belive.
I've had no *** help! These people should work for the (watch spelling!) GOVMENT!

But I still consider this "Dean" of fellas as he has been consitent in the last couple of years I've watched him. ...watchin.....

Huck Finn might of said "Alright! I may take SOME stock in it but just a litta!"....


Hahahahahaha........as the river ran..........

My NAME IS RANDY STEWART AND I WILL SUBCRIBE THIS MORNING.

I come from a great family and was assgined several ***** but one has become my BEST friend! Jim waves to you all now.

**** Jim gives me no reason to not trust the man and I'm off to his shop if you don't mind. I tend to like this "Dean" and my brother and only companion **** Jim likes him too. yes.

Love ya'll much....

Anyone has concerns need to be met outside this forum, you can e-mail me here:

lunchwithhuckfinn@yahoo.com

And Good Bless Yall...**** ya need it.

Yeah so get that worked out JAMES.....

I LOVE YOU

One doesn't have to suddenly reinvent himself as an illusionist and spend the big bucks all at once. Buying one illusion and working out the details can be an add on to an existing performer's act and a way to generate more money and more services to offer to potential clients. The initial outlay for the one illusion could pay for itself from one or two performances. That is how I initially acquired my first illusions: booking bigger shows for corporate clients who wanted a special effect. By increasing the proposed fee to accomodate the need, i.e. the illusion, the cost was factored into the quote. Once I became comfortable with the first illusion and felt that adding another to the act was feasible and could be accomodated, a second illusion was purchased. The first two illusions, bought many years ago, were the Zig Zag Lady and the Gomolo levitation. Both fit into the back of the Suburu I owned. Both could travel pretty easily on airplanes. I could set up both without much help. I did not have to have an extra assistant in addition to my female performer. Later the act included additional illusions. But one does not have to make the huge investment at once and purchase all of the lighting, sound, etc. to become a Copperfield or a Burton simply at the idea stage. Try it out. Buy a used illusion if money is an issue. Does your character and your performance style go with the illusion? Is it a comfortable fit? Do you like working with an assistant? Can you sell the act for more money? Is it working for you? Only then should you start to consider the substantial investment if being a full time illusionist is contemplated. And the last item on Dennis' list can be the most important: storage. Illusions take up a lot of space. So do spouses, kids, furniture, etc. Too much magic stored at the house can put stresss on your relationships.

Hmmmmmm... Randy, not sure what you mean or, for that matter what the heck your post was about. - - Color me confused. (Hehehehehehe!)

GUESS:
If it's about my spelling, you are right, I am "constant" in that at least eh'? (HA!) Funny enough, this time it was more of a simple "type-O" rather than a spelling mis-hap, though I'm sure there are others in the post above.

Read my signature...

Anyway... back on point:
Just to be CLEAR, I DID NOT suggest that anyone go out a buy a bunch of "anything", let alone illusions. As a matter of fact, I never made a suggestion at all. ("ILLUSIONS" may not even BE the right answer anyway...)

THAT WAS Kind-Of THE POINT, wasn't it?

Notice I simply “ASKED QUESTIONS”, so that we have some further insight as to what the answer might be. Right now, there simply is NOT enough data/information to make any reasonable suggestion at all! We need more insight in order to help appropriately, that's all. (And I know we WANT to help, but right now, we can't really...)

So, to the rest of my ability (with-out taking a stab in the dark or writing an entire book) to answer the original post… the answer is still: DEPENDS!

Next...

I am at your service and In HIS Service,
Deano, NOT in Reno this week.
<><

I agree with the thought about figuring out WHAT IS OUR OUTCOME AND WHY. Super important!!! The fact of the matter is that without viable market you WILL go broke. And let's face it the market for illlusion show is fairly limited. Correct me if I am wrong, but the only places that you can VIABLY perform illusion shows and actually make serious return on the in most cases HUGE upfront cash layout are cruise ships, casinos, theme parks or fund raisers. Unless you are a known name or it's a fundraiser the general public is NOT really intersted in illusion shows. Just ask Reveen - this was the main reason why he decided to go for hypnosis... Corporate work maybe some but it's definately not steady - the fact is most of them want to hire close up or regural "stage" shows by FAR. If you are real "working" guy you know what I am saying is true... I don't want to discourage you by any means, just want to make you think about the WHY. People get sometimes excited about big illusion shows without really considering ALL of the aspects of doing them. I am speaking from experiance. Unless you have serious $$$ behind you and planning to tour will be forced to help set up and tear the down show too - you are looking at 15-17 hour days - VERY tiring. What market do you have in mind?

Bond... James Bond,

Well spoke brother!

Our aim is NOT to discourage, but rather to “encourage in the right direction”.

YES, Illusion show "can" be profitable, but largely "IF You Know HOW"! THAT is in part why I asked...

Too, Illusions MAY NOT be the best solution depending on the desired "OUTCOME". )Maybe it IS, maybe it’s not… we don’t know yet.) Maybe a game show will get us closer to the real RESULT that we are looking for, maybe a Hype show, or a Talent Showcase offering, Or, Or, Or, Or... There is really no way to know till we get some more answers from James in L.A. Until then, we are taking a wild shot in the dark, which is like a Doctor offering to do surgery with-out knowing what he problem is... who knows, it may only be a simple cold.

Either way, this is a great discussion to have for ALL of us to read as we all have "dreams and aspirations" and sometimes we go for our dreams with out knowing where we want to end up and so we either never know when we arrive, or if we are even on the right path to get the destination we truly desire.

That's all.

Here, by answering some simple questions, we are attempting to set course for a success destination instead of getting in the car and going north and "hoping" we get close... GPS baby, GPS.

I hope this helps some...


James, (In LA) your next. We need YOUR input.

I am at your service and In HIS Service,
Deano
<><

Deano it had nothing to do with you. Belive it or not. I happen to like you and your ways.

You're spelling and comments are good! I'm attracted to them. They are on fire and passionate. Come to think of it, I've seen you light several cities on fire. No problem. But no, it had nothing to do with you.

I, also, am in His Service, and he told me to tell you that you've misunderstood. He also wants you to know that your right front tire is low and perhaps needs to be changed? I don't know...

Hey that ain't bad since my last message to a magician was:

"Tell me I'm a sinner, I got news for you, I spoke to God this morning and he don't like you...."

At least you don't have that problem.

Much peace to you,

Randy

Have to admit, Randy, your posts on this thread are also cryptic and confusing when I read them. I just don't understand what you are saying at all.

Care to clear up the confusion?

- Donald

P.S. I'm just asking with sincere interest, so please don't mock me in response to my question.