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Dr Spektor
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After a ton of threads on Criss Angel and his kith and kin and the obvious use of stooges... I find that I want to restore the use of stooges to its proper place - as an excellent magic technique when used properly. I myself use "stooges" in a lot of ways (magic, education simulations, theatre (although the term changes in the different fields)) and have a lot of material that touches on the subject - I wonder if this is an area that deserves a book... "STOOGECRAFT"... I might even get around to writing it. From instant stooge - unknowing stooge - blended in stooge - stooge vs assistant - doling out of fragmeneted info - the stooge team - cueing stooges - how to balance an act with stooges - dangers of stooges - prepping techniques of stooges - verbal deceptions to cloak a stooge - 3 people can keep a secret if 2 of them are dead - how to pick a stooge - when not to use a stooge - why use a stooge - theatre aspects of magic and mentalism - experiential simulations and the creation of the magic moment...

Anybody would be interested? Any of you pro's who use stooges willing to share some ideas or look over the material (as it develops)? This will likely be a work of timmmmeeeeee since I never seem to have to much of it when I need it!

All hail the STOOGE
"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
Tony Iacoviello
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Doc

I love the Stooges.

Just let me know if I can be of any help. Nyuk nyuk nyuk.

Tony (The 6th Stooge)
ALEXANDRE
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There is currently one routine I use with a stooge and would be glad to donate it to the book.

It's strong and I love it.
RicHeka
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I understand that in the 19th century folk's used to hire themselve's out as Stooge's...They travelled the country in a vehicle known as a Stoogecoach.
sweeney
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I think, angelo stagnaro wrote a book about stooges. it's called Conspiracy.
Dr Spektor
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Thanks Tony and Alexandre - I will likely take up your offers as well as the nice PMers Smile!

Gosh Rich - that is a cool historical fact! I also heard in Cuba that the locals would let themselves be set on fire and be puffed on as Stoogies..... argh - must pull out of mental tail-spin....
"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
PsiDroid
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Some berglas effects required a stooge or more than one as part of method and they end up being so clean that magicians are still speaking about those "miracles" today and to debate if the methodology has been explained in his book or not... poor men.

Berglas was a genius at orchestrating full routines using mechanical devices and impeccable acting stooges:I think your book can be of value to many blind performers riding today scene
Dr Spektor
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In fact, the Berglas book is full of stoogecraft -including the methodology - in fact, he was a StoogeMaster General... and he knew how to do it where people didn't even realize they were stooges - also, the whole concept of dual reality falls into some of this where specs on stage say and do things with one meaning the performer wants them to do for a completely more powerful meaning for the audience.... semi-stooge
"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
Maddened
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I would love to see something like this, though the down side is how people may now start to realise what gold there is to be found in stoogecraft and start using them. And use them badly.

And there will always be people like that. But I love stooges (and I seriously advocate having a different term for these lovely helpers) and I have one very simple routine that does use a stooge of a kind. It was designed for a totally different purpose, but I'll be happy to share if you're interested. I'm no pro though... Heh.
Martin Pulman
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Dr Spektor,
I think your 'Stoogecraft' idea is a great one. It would be great if it was as in-depth as John Born's ACAAN tome.
Or perhaps the magnificent Berglas has already written that book?
Dr Spektor
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I wish Berglas would write it - but there are a lot of clues and inspirations woven within the "Mind and Myth of David Berglas".....


Stagnaro, eh? I was just asking about him the other week! I'll go digging...
"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
Lord Of The Horses
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So... why aren't you gone to write STOOGECRAFT yet, uh?
Then you'll rise right before my eyes, on wings that fill the sky, like a phoenix rising!
Scott Xavier
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The floating table comes to mind...
Danik1
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Even if I don't like the use of stooges cause in my opinion, with the use of stooges, anybody can perform magic ... Anybody, I'd be curious to read about it just to see if the routines you guys use are worth changing my mind about stooges.

Give you an example: The magician invites a spectator to come on stage and ask him to think of ANY card and write the name of it on a piece of paper.

The spectator does that with the magician having his back turned. The Spectator hides the piece of paper ... the magician turns back to face the audience ... ask the spectator to think of his card while he concentrates and then ...

The magician reveals that it the ... 9 of clubs!!! Of course, the spectator say yes, show his piece of paper to the rest of the audience and it is the 9 of clubs.

Of course, all of that was pre-show where the magician asked that stooge to write the 9 of clubs on the piece of paper when he would call him on stage. Well that's LAME!!! ANYBODY CAN DO THAT!!!

Now I know theres terrefic routines out there that uses stooges, but I prefer not to use stooges and that's just a personnal choice. I have nothing against people that do so.

And like I said, I'd be curious to read a book about stooging to see if it's really worth it.

Danik
Dr Spektor
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Like all magic - the key is to make sure the method is invisible / not obvious / and things are built in to lead people to false conclusions - stooging has gotten a bad rap lately as certain performers use stooges in too much obvious ways - stooging is worth it depending on the effect and what you want to accomplish - as I am gathering data, I'm finding a lot of the greats of mentalism and bizarre magic all employed stooges for certain effects...

Don't worry Paolo - the book will come forth - some day - but as I research away, I am now considering that the art of stoogecraft should actually be a cloesly guarded secret - in the right hands it can perform miracles...

So far, I've got a bunch of people willing to volunteer effects, I got a library worth of theory and case examples... I got a small draft. Also something that can be added (if it doesn't get out of control) is some expansion on themes within the Sheil's effect regarding myth building - which one can also employ stooges to do... in spades!

One thing I haven't found as yet is the origin of the word "stooge" - I do think I would like to come up with a better term Smile

Keep watching the skies!
"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
Lord Of The Horses
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No wonder that with a post such as the one by Danik1, this book should only be kept for someone with some good experience background in the performing field.
Then you'll rise right before my eyes, on wings that fill the sky, like a phoenix rising!
Dr Spektor
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Stooge
n.

The partner in a comedy team who feeds lines to the other comedian; a straight man.

One who allows oneself to be used for another's profit or advantage; a puppet.

Slang. A stool pigeon.


I would guess Stooge comes from #1 - since its theatrical... but maybe that is why the term sounds pretty dated / not quite right for what we do with people who help us in knowing and unknowing ways....

What do people think of:

Abetter - sounds too criminal justice system

Accomplice - this sounds kind of nice - as some are unknowing

Cat's Paw - for the super-stooge / assistant

Feigner - someone in on the method

Foil - although it means often to block things - it sounds cool if I write this up with a fencing motif - but probablty a term for the stooge that is set up to cause trouble the performer wants to happen Smile

Minion - for bizzarists Smile

Pawn - this term I like a lot - as then the different levels etc. as I write this thing up can have a "Chess" theme - which fits with the tactical planning and intense scripting required to use stooges... orchestrating a play as opposed to just yourself and a regular spec... (also, I can toss in some Prisoner quotes too then - how do you tell who is one what side? By the moves they make? Not always!)

Thanks for reading!
"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
Danik1
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Quote:
On 2006-08-12 21:47, Lord Of The Horses wrote:
No wonder that with a post such as the one by Danik1, this book should only be kept for someone with some good experience background in the performing field.


What makes you think I don't have a good experience background in the performing field? You assume that just because I said I didn't like using Stooges? Go and say that to Richard Osterlind just to see what he thinks about your opinion. If there's a man who's been entertaining people for a long long time and is against using stooges himself, it's Osterlind!

So you can take your comment about me thinking what I think about stooges just because I don't have experience backround in the performing field and keep it to yourself. And for your information, I already performed for crowds of 400 peoples. I perform at least 1 or 2 times a week for groups of 30 to 90 peoples so I think I DO HAVE THE EXPERIENCE BACKROUND. So next time you write something, just make sure YOU know what your talking about!

Danik
Dr Spektor
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...hey guys, as originator of this thread - lets keep cool and calm heads Smile - go PMing wouldja? Danik, I like all comments! Especially from someone like you because if I was going to write a book - I'd like to have a list of all the concerns, myths, personal negative experiences of stoogecraft so I could actually address them!

Stooging is not for everyone - just like some people will never want to use a NW or PW... its personal taste, goodness of fit, and time to put into developing a skill (which we all have limited time)...

As for Richard Osterlind - I don't think he said he is against stooging - he just doesn't use them for the types of effects he uses. And he doesn't have to because his stuff is genius but are still certain types of effects. Having stooges does allow for other types of effects... ones you can't do totally alone unless you have "real" magical powers.

Personally, I'd rather get out info that clearly states the amount of effort, time, and orchestration, guidance and cuing involved in stoogecraft so people can 1) do it properly and thus protect the method or 2) say gosh, that would take more time than learning the Pass - and pass on doing stooging and thus protect the method...

Methinks.
"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
Danik1
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I know Dr Spektor. Everything you say is true. I would really like to read your book on stooging and I really have nothing against people who uses stooges like I said in my first post.

I'm sure I might even take maybe a couple of routines from your book if I saw great routines that could change my mind about the subject because I'm keeping and open mind on that subject that's why I have nothing against people who use stooges.

I'm sorry about my last post, but it just that when a guy assume things on you just because of a post you've made , I don't know, it just makes me a little bit mad. I don't judge people on their opinions and I don't like to be categorize on the NON-PERORMER list just because I don't think like him.

Anyway, I hope to read such a book someday.

Danik
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