First of all, I could answer you to go and look at David Berglas who has been fairly more entertaining and, most of all, SPECTACULAR than Richard Osterlind; and he used stooges.

But, having said that... I do not need crutches to support my standing up. If you need Osterlind or anyone else as crutch, it's your choice... not mine.

I could even have 100 Richard Osterlind simultaneously disagreeing with me, and this could not change my stance a bit. His experience is not my experience and viceversa. Both of us can get along fine, no need to agree on everything.

And, last but not least, my post was not meant to be disrescpectful to you as a person but, if I had to take just your simple (almost simplistic and superficial) example of a Mentalist using a stooge AND your mention of pre-show just thrown in the mix AND the fact you simply said everyone can do that... Well, that seemed to me (TO ME, not to Richard Osterlind, OK?) as if you were quite unexperienced on the STOOGING subject field.

If you want to discuss it further, I don't. Simply because I don't need to. I said what I wanted to say.

Thanks for all of your marvelous wisdom Lord Of The Horses. You won ... you had the last word. Feel better now? Fine! Let's move on!

Sam Dalal has an article in Swami Mantra on the subject of stooging that might be of interest. I believe it's called The Devils Advocate or something like that. Very much in the same vein as your book idea.

-Dagger

In his latest movie, "Scoop," Woody Allen plays a magician. "I never use stooges," he quips. "You have to pay for their health insurance."

Danik1: You simply posted something that was a bad example of using stogges just to make your point. And someone (probably with much more performing experience than you) simply pointed that out. You seem to want a war: Win ? Lose ? Are you aware of that attitude you have only in your mind to begin with?

Dr.Spektor: May I humbly suggest you to keep that book undercover; maybe for some restrict group of working performers only? Your idea is great and refreshing and I seriously wish you to realize it.

Some of the goodies in The Color Series employ the use of a stooge! Much luck on the book, Dr Spektor

Btw, wasn't Stooge visited by three spirits on Christmas Eve? haha, jk!

--JustinCredible--

Ahhh Stooges...I'd like to raise my glass...

Every show I performed as a kid Magician required an adult "stooge".

While setting up prior to the performance I would causally find a man or woman on their way to the restroom and slip them a duplicate kmart tie or tasteful 70's scarf...explaining with a wink that "I would rather not destroy their own and it would be fine if they pretended to resist my actions".

A few scissor snips and a bulky Change-bag later...real strong magic.

Real magic for everyone perhaps except for the stooge...but hey...they got to keep the cheap kmart tie.

Interesting thread Spektor. I was going to start a thread on the pros and cons of stooging. as was stated here and by myself elsewhere in the Café. One could do an incredible set of miracles with one or two well placed stooges, BUT the use would have to be subtle enough to not scream "set up!"
I was thinking of a Tony Sheils effect that uses a stooge. (Sorry kids, get his Tape set for the effect and the method).
So, anyone could do "magic" with no training using stooges. It would be interesting if nothing else. One part of me says, who cares, if the audience is thrilled and entertained and even for a little while "believes" what is the harm. But it is an easy way out, and many purists out there would not even use a "ignorant" stooge who doesn't even know he is a stooge.
Sounds like a great idea for a book. Keep us posted.

Using a stooge in your show may seem like an "anybody can do that" effect.
But to do it right requires picking the right person, conveying exactly what
they're supposed to do, when, and how, making sure they don't overact, keeping
it a secret. Oh, and not to go to the bathroom when they're needed on stage.
I think it requires acting skills on the part of the performer.
"Anybody can do that" I don't think so.

Woodfield

As Max Maven said (and someone can quote the exact phrasing) about mentalism being the easist - to do badly! Same with stooging - yes, one can do it with no training and thus its like doing a pass for the first time in front of a live audience - it will be so obvious and painful - the training consists of thinking of audience reactions, stagecraft, dramatic arts, scripting, balancing strength of the effects etc. in fact, stooging to be done well requires a heck of a lot of high level skills...

The book is slowly forming - but since this this more a work of love than for money (in fact, if it really ever materialzies, I plan to make sure all proceeds go to someplace like the Children's Wish Fund) it will be done slowly and with care with no concerns about rushing it out before its ready. I've seen too many effects and books like that - just like stoogecraft itself, the writing needs to be taken slowly and with care....

And Dr. North, are you talking about the cool ghost in the house effect or the Tyger?

Stooges necessarily need not be organic.

Isso appreciates Dr. Spektor's superlative writing skills and, having begun to absorb the Berglas book this summer (through Matt Andrews' kindness), respects the formidable task Dr. Spektor faces elucidating the complexities of these relationships. You are pure of heart with your intentions and we wish we you well. You must talk to Whit, SOS.

H D X!

--Lydia 19 end of the line

Nope it involves a stone. A simialr effect he does uses a watch.

Yep, Sheils (and Cameron) have a ton of stooge work in their books...!

Dr Spektor - you ever managed to put a book together on this topic? I'd buy it.

Paolo Cavalli has a good one on this subject.

Thanks ringo

I think that is about two-person codes...

SW

I'm much less interested in the two person act, and much more interested in the utilisiation of predetermined and instant stooges. Fascinating stuff, and not a realm that I have yet ventured into.

Iam with ringo. Paolo Cavalli has a short booklet "Confederacy" with routines that blend stooges and genuine helpers in many subtle ways

So are different stooges used at every show? And how can one be sure those stooges could be trusted enough not say anything afterwards? Sounds like a lot of risk if you ask me.

Some of the mentalists on the Geller show were caught using stooges/pre-show, and the viewers stopped taking them seriously anymore.