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The Mac Inner circle 1982 Posts |
Hi guys
I just thought up a cool (well I hope so) stage appearance. This is a grand illusion. Who can I speak to in here about turning my sketches into something more? Regards Mac |
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LeeAlex2002 Inner circle 1007 Posts |
Chris Stolz is a member here, or Reedrc, or Jack Murray, Mark Parker - a lot of choice of members on the Café!
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The Mac Inner circle 1982 Posts |
Thanks alot!
I'm gonna do a 3d animation of the idea to give people the idea of what I think. Regards Mac |
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cupmagic Loyal user 249 Posts |
Cool !
Once you got your idea ready, I believe in no time you will achieve your idea in no time. REgards Cup |
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Laszlo Csizmadi Special user From Hell 868 Posts |
Mac,
I wouldn't tell anyone. As soon as you do anyone could change a bit and can say it is his/her illusion. But it is up to you. Best Las |
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markparker Veteran user Singapore 350 Posts |
Laci200, you have a point but I for one work with new ideas in total confidence as I am sure other designers do and at some point you have to get valid input before your ideas progress.
http://www.illusion-designer.com - Bespoke Illusion design - Publications -Show consultancy....Vivify a collection of stage illusions limited edition of 500 copies available now.
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Laszlo Csizmadi Special user From Hell 868 Posts |
Mark.
You are right, in a way, but if Mac can build it himself then better if he do it. It happened to me. I wrote my idea down here in the Café and 10 days later someone (I don't say name here on the thread) started to sell on his site. He claimed he was working on it 4 years. He might but I was the one who posted first. Why he did not sell before I posted? That's why I wouldn't tell anyone. The second time with another illusion I contacted one of the top magicians. He was very very interested about my idea. We wrote each other a couple emails. Twice he was asking how the illusion works. I told him I would only talk to him personally about the illusion. I even offered that I would go to his city to meet and talk. He never wrote me back. I think he wanted to know my idea and he would change a bit then I can clapp for "his" illusion. Best Las |
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collective foundry Inner circle 1404 Posts |
I agree and disagree with laci200. I wouldent tell anyone. However I WOULD approach an established designer for thougts and research on if things were done or not. An established designer: technically its in their best interest to keep secrets. We loose business if we loose credibility. So if you need to approach anyone - do it with a reputable individual (not individuals) whom you can trust. And the industry has shown they can trust.
Pretty simple. Not even my own family & close circle of friends know what I'm working on with clients.it'd be in our best interest to keep secrets. Its what we do best, as magicians, deisgners and performers. (those who don't do not have a respect for the art, eachother or anyone else) We must work together to advance our art. |
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Laszlo Csizmadi Special user From Hell 868 Posts |
Update,
I got some PM about this issue. There are others who got ripped off by so called "designer" There are more designer who are doing this not just one. All I can tell if you have illusion idea(s) check out the designer website and get all information what you can before you tell anything about your ideas. Avoid the designer who isn't have website or it is long time says that it is "Under Construction" or "Soon" could be a fake designer. The designer who doesn't has much on his site or didn't sold anything has no experience yet could be the same. The person who is trying to proof (I mean pushy) how good he is makes me wonder why. If someone realy good don't need fame himself others will tell that. Don't tell your ideas here on the Café only when they are built and you can show video. If you have no building experience try to find designer, builder who has lots of experience well known and have realy good past with illusions. I checked out some. I never had business with them. Mark Parker has a very good website. He wrote illusion book what you can buy on his site and I'm sure he has very good past with illusions. http://www.4-effect.com Jack Murray's website is good and I heard from other magicians he is a realy nice guy who is working hard. His work looks excellent. http://www.dream-illusions.com/ Chris Murphy's site looks nice and has some very nice prop. http://www.ozillusions.com/ I'm sorry if I forget someone who is respected designer or builder. I wrote this because I don't like if some "designer" get NAME in this business from other people idea(s). There are still good designers out there you just need to find it. Best Las |
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collective foundry Inner circle 1404 Posts |
To say that under construction or coming soon for some time, and they cant be a serious designer is totally ridiculous, I guess we should say everyone who does not have time to do their own website is a total sham.
Or because you don't have a website, You must not be credible. Seen Parkers site? has not been updated EVER from what I can tell.. Still one of the best designers in the industry... |
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The Drake Inner circle 2274 Posts |
I think maybe Las is refering to those who go out of their way to look like established designers/creators with a website but have no "real" product to show. Its called Vaporware because it doesn't really exist. They keep making promises of " photos coming soon" but it never happens.
This is also common with many magicians. You visit their site and they make claims to have performed the most spectacular of shows but there are NO photos of them performing. The only photos you see are of them posing and trying to look magical. LOL I'm guessing its simply a matter of fishing for business so you can get some bookings so you can eventually have some photos to post. If you don't have an established rep in the business and you want impress clients you need some REAL wares to show off and not just " coming soon" vaporware promises. If you are established then your rep is more important than any website. Many performers and designers are simply too busy to update their tired sites.. me included. LOL However if we want to keep up with the competition we should get around to updating them. ( with real photos..LOL ) Best, Tim |
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Bill Blagg III Regular user 169 Posts |
I feel the need to chime in here. I want to say first of all that a website has no bearing on a designers ability or credibility. Let's take for example Don Wayne...he doesn't have a website...does this mean he has no credibility?? I think not...reason why he doesn't have a site up and running is because he is too busy working with professionals in the field to worry about this small detail. Yes, it is a small detail b/c he has major clients and projects that require a lot of detail. I will also say the same for Ryan Reed...I have worked with him on NUMEROUS projects all of which have been completed on time. Granted, he is a "new" designer in the world of magic to the perfomers used to Jim Steinmeter, Don Wayne, etc. but I have found his work to be excellent and my audiences have been thrilled with the designs he has worked with my team on. Ryan's site isn't up b/c I'm too busy tying him up with all my projects that he doesn't have time to worry about it...and I know I'm not his only client. My advice is to find a designer with an established record and go from there...anyone who pays for work from someone with no credentials, etc. will be disappointed as it seems from a poster in this thread.
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Pakar Ilusi Inner circle 5777 Posts |
Thanks for the advice given so far everyone...
I'm a new Illusionist, but this info is much appreciated...
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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Chris Stolz Inner circle Mississauga, Ontario 1958 Posts |
Ryan Reed knows his stuff and knows it well.
Posted: Aug 28, 2006 10:17pm -------------------------------------------- MacGyver feel free to message me if you'd like to brainstorm and toss ideas back and forth!
Chris Stolz
BLACK ART BOOK: Hiding In The Shadows. |
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Laszlo Csizmadi Special user From Hell 868 Posts |
Amos,
Well I gave 3 good example so I thought I should give one site which I don't like. I'm not thrashing him but in my opinion he is not ready for call himself a designer. that's all. As I said he could be a good one in the future. Is that a problem being honest? By the way all what you listed above either way doesn't work I mean no video or my computer could open just one. |
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collective foundry Inner circle 1404 Posts |
To come to Chris's defense (not that any is needed) (and I deeply thank those who felt the need to post kindly of IEI / Myself) Chris is a fairly new designer. The medium he's chosen is a VERY difficult medium to tap into. It took me years and years of testing and R&D to be able to take a drawing to 3D and get someone to invest in the product. It had never been done before. No one knew if the product would look like the renderings. Luckily though careful design and some VERY competent and PATIENT builders, my concepts translated to reality exactly as their renderings did. I have some fantastic clients, as well as some amazing support team for fabrication to help the process translate to the design style. This takes YEARS of dedication of all parties involved as well as a great deal of trust on the performers end. In the beginning we had nothing to show. Just great concepts and designs.
Through the years as projects come and go, the resume starts to grow we have much more to show. Experiences learned. Lessons learned. Advancements in technology as well as improvement in design and technique both with physical drafting, computer design & fabrication techniques, while trying to advance magic whilst trying to make everyone happy, not stepping on toes through the design process. Believe me it’s a dance that takes time to learn. And not everyone can dance. Or learn the dance. When we first started our designs & renderings were laughable. None of this stuff can be taught. We were truly paving new ground with our approach to design. Recently Chris comes into the picture. Some of the work is reminiscent of where IEI was in the early 90's. Very simplified design, nothing very complex in the 3D world, no real world experience or photos of finished works. my point? Give the guy a break. Understand that this approach to design does not come easily. Coming from someone who's BENCHMARKED this kind of design, Chris is still in very early stage of development in what he is capable of doing as a designer. For the time he's been at it I see remarkable progress. I for one whish Chris the best, although not knowing the details of what happened to laci200, his points ARE VALID . In this business reputation & stature is like getting a credit card. You've got to HAVE credit to get credit. It’s a hard line to walk. And the slightest mistake or mishap can be devastating to a career. There are those who choose to walk the line of professionalism, there are those who don’t care, and will be rip - off artists. The way to tell who is who should be obvious to the seasoned performer. In this age of new design approach its very hard for the early designers to establish themselves. Got to have real world product to sell, (credit with no credit ) without real photos of real items. Again a seasoned performer and seasoned builder should be able to quickly interpret a practical real world design from something that could never work. The differences should be very obvious. Milan Forzetting says it best in his book Paragons & Paradoxes - page 81 "Shut up And Dance" (Excerpt from Paragons & Paradoxes Shut up and dance Page 83 © 1995 MagiWorks Publications) Starting at Paragraph 2 "Well, Off Stage he sounded like he knew what he was talking about... But On stage (or in the studio as a designer/Onsite) He didn’t seem o know much of anything" - A production manager , trying to describe another magic act to Milan "Even though he's no longer of this life, I remember (sometimes too late) things like this whenever I feel a little too pretentious or as dad would say "uppity". Even Houdini had a line I recall from a Walter B. Gibson trustee: "Never tell your audience how good you are; they will soon find out for themselves." "Now, I always thought of that in the positive sense; as the old saying goes, "Dazzle them with brilliance... done baffle them with Bull S...IT" After I started watching over semi-professionals at work, I realized that the great Erich was probably referring to something else. I believe he was saying something to the effect of "keep your belief in yourself.... TO YOURSELF". "In magic, as in all of the arts, there are far to many of the braggadocios types who love to spout their "look-at-me" rhetoric as a means to impress others...." "But they do enjoy giving everyone else an earful of their self-proclamation of higher being. Although they are probably nice people, they do more talking about their show than actually doing it. More effort is put into their talk of proficiency than actual execution. this is either because they assume all can see their inane greatness, so they needen't try too hard; or because they actually lack every virtue they so proclaim.... or a combination of both." ............" If you can't be humble, the other alternative is to be line the Lion, always roaring but saying nothing. In real life, humans (and most definitely booking agents ) will always do their utmost to avoid the lion." (END QUOTES) |
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collective foundry Inner circle 1404 Posts |
Will be bowing out of topic as I've said my piece already . Thanks for reading guys.
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The Mac Inner circle 1982 Posts |
This thread shows exactly what is wrong with magicians..sigh
I don't blame criss angel from shunning the community |
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ClintonMagus Inner circle Southwestern Southeast 3997 Posts |
Mac, why not request the moderator to delete this thread, start a new thread and try again? I'm sure there are folks out there who will eventually give you some usable advice.
;) Good Luck, Amos McCormick
Things are more like they are today than they've ever been before...
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The Mac Inner circle 1982 Posts |
Ahh screw it
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