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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Only mentalists? (4 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

Sealegs
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I posted this in the wrong place (inner thoughts) but I meant it to go here. Smile Smile
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How do all the mentalists here view acts that use mental effects but don't purport to be mentalists but rather a magic act of one description or another?

Would/do their opinions have any merit for you?

I ask as a full time pro of 20 years+ experience who does a comedy magic show. I use quite a few mental effects in my show that are played both for maximum laughs and maximum impact of effect.

It has been, shall I say, brought to my attention that for at least one person this appears to mean that any posts I might make here are likely to be considered to... lack credibility amongst Café members. (To be honest I wasn't aware you needed any credibility to place a post in the 1st place)

I'm interested to know what do you think? And by the way I really am not looking for any kind of validation here, I'm not that pathetic honest, so please feel free to be blunt if you have an opinion on this, I'm sure we non-mentalist-who-perform-some-mental-effects performers can take it and it would be interesting to know your views.

Neal.
Neal Austin

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Tony Iacoviello
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Neal:

No problems with it here. Infact, I think much of what is in said mentalism shows belongs in magic shows.

Tony
Bill Palmer
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I don't mind magicians doing an occasional piece of mentalism in their acts as long as they don't think that doing one or two mental pieces makes them a mentalist, and as long as they don't create the impression with the audience that anyone with a couple of twenty dollar bills in their wallet can become a mentalist by visiting the local trick shop. Most magicians wouldn't like to give the impression that a couple of twenties will make you a magician, either.

If any performer presents mentalism well, I appreciate it.

Ted Lesley has long mixed magic and mentalism with great success.
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chichi711
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Bill what do you perform the most?
icentertainment
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Neal---yeah I got some of that people hear looked at my site and because I do roving / strolling magic they said I wasn't a mentalist- even tho my stage show is a mentalist show--- I don't give a dam what people think about me- and most of them are snobs anyway who think that way and probably should have retired 20 years ago.

Do whatever you want call yourself what ever you want - understand that you'll probably get some negative feedback whatever you say- you can iether ignor it or becaome Darth Dave like me.
RickDangerous
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My audience don't know the difference between a mental magic show or a mentalism show. So why bother and try to find out?
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Dario
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Entertain and mistify are the goal. If you have find your way like this go ahead.If you express your personality and creativity in this way, then is good for you.

But as sometimes if you want something you have to pay. Deep personal impact is lost playing for comedy, and straight and direct entertaiment is lost playing more hard.

When I perform mentalism I do a different kind of comedy that when I perform comedy magic. Most of the audiences infromt a ,entalism will think that at last It's a magician with "something more" they can't explain. And is this "something more" what makes great mentalism (and part of my audience after laugh in the show, comes to ask me questions about his future...!)
mentalism addict
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There is nothing wrong with doing mentalism in a magic show, but what I do hate is ppl. that write on the website "im a mentalist and magician". it makes it look in my opinion that mentalism and magic is on the same level, even though they are both meant for your audience to enjoy, still when you do mentalism in a magic show it gives the mentalism a different feel than the magic trick, and by writing "i do both" it makes it sound like you do fake mental effects and makes it look like we are all fakers (which we aren't or are we? Smile. thnx!
ThomasIndigo
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I think most mentalists would say that it's ok for a magician to do some mental effects in their shows, as long as they understand that it doesn't make them mentalists. If you do mentalism and more traditional magic in the same set, the mentalism loses "credibility" in that the audience will assume trickery, rather than powers or unique skills.

One of my good friends is a comedy magician and he has a contest-winning act that makes heavy use of Sv*nP*ds. He blows audiences away with it. Now if he claimed that what he was doing was mentalism, and not mental magic, his audiences would be more skeptical and the overall impact would be reduced. Mental magic has its place, and gets more hate than it deserves because some scrubs cannot differentiate between the two when they are performing.

As far as your credibility in the eyes of mentalists... you're a performer, meaning you work on your craft and character throughout your entire life. That means you can bring great ideas to the table!
If somebody looks down on you during discussions of mentalism it likely means that they are too closed-minded to exchange good ideas with anyway.
As Peter Turner says: "You don't have to be a chef to taste the soup!"

Best,
Tom Indigo
Matt Pulsar
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The difference is in intent as has been stated in other posts. I look at it in the same way I do the difference between crooked gamblers who use sleight of hand and a magician. If the magician is caught doing sleight of hand, well, he's going to play it off and its just a trick anyhow right? However, the gambler would be done, and perhaps even in the most final since of the word. Any mental effect performed by someone who is doing "tricks" is not going to be viewed as mentalism. But, in the converse, many magic effects can be performed as mentalist if you are a mentalist, the audience accepts the conceit and you frame them well.

I sometimes will cringe at seeing a magician perform a strong mental piece (name revelation, book test etc...) depending on the performer. It can deflate the effect. I very rarely perform any metal bending anyhow because too many magicians are making ballon animal forks. They don't seem to get that less is more, or how powerful it can play if it's not done as a trick. But I also know, as they have a trickster character and strong magicians guilt, that they would never play it real.
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WitchDocChris
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Quote:
On Jan 5, 2018, StuartPalm wrote:
The difference is in intent as has been stated in other posts. I look at it in the same way I do the difference between crooked gamblers who use sleight of hand and a magician. If the magician is caught doing sleight of hand, well, he's going to play it off and its just a trick anyhow right? However, the gambler would be done, and perhaps even in the most final since of the word. Any mental effect performed by someone who is doing "tricks" is not going to be viewed as mentalism. But, in the converse, many magic effects can be performed as mentalist if you are a mentalist, the audience accepts the conceit and you frame them well.

I sometimes will cringe at seeing a magician perform a strong mental piece (name revelation, book test etc...) depending on the performer. It can deflate the effect. I very rarely perform any metal bending anyhow because too many magicians are making ballon animal forks. They don't seem to get that less is more, or how powerful it can play if it's not done as a trick. But I also know, as they have a trickster character and strong magicians guilt, that they would never play it real.


I agree with every word here and you said it better than I could have, Stuart.
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Mac_Stone
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Does comedy mentalism satisfy audiences? I think John Archer would argue yes.

Does serious mentalism satisfy audiences? I think Max Maven would argue yes.

Can combining magic and mentalism satisfy an audience? I would argue yes.


If you think magic and mentalism can't be mixed to provide a good show then I invite you to watch more movies. Movies frequently blend disparate genres to commercial and critical success.

It's really just about whatever kind of experience you want to provide for your audience, use what ever tools you feel necessary.

Magic and Mentalism are just tools that performers use to create a theatrical experience. A thespian would use their acting, a musician would use their instruments, but beyond those basic tools of stagecraft there are many more the performer can use to create the theatrical experience they want to present to the audience.

If you don't think a musician creates a theatrical experience you haven't been to a really good concert.



I think talk about the "believability" of mentalism is silly, but maybe that's because I come from the Penn and Teller school of thought of, "I'm just a regular guy that learned to do a few cool tricks."

I think any "mentalist" that genuinely wants his audience to walk away from a show with the impression that he has mystical powers that somehow defy natural law is silly, possibly even deranged.

I think any "magician" that genuinely wants his audience to walk away from a show with the impression that he has mystical powers that somehow defy natural law is silly, possibly even deranged.

I think any magician or mentalist that that genuinely wants his audience to walk away from a theatrical experience with the impression that their character has mystical powers that somehow defy natural law is someone who is trying to satisfy their audiences needs rather than gratifying their own.

Audiences don't walk away from concerts, plays, and movies thinking the actors, singers, and musicians were born with a talent only few possess. Yes, genetics were mostly responsible for how good the actor looks, and for the vocal chords a singer was born with, but they all had to develop their skills. Audiences walk away with an appreciation in knowing that those performers worked harder than anybody else to put on the best show possible so they could enjoy it.
Luke Jonas
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I Think that any effect performed well can fit into anyone's show be it a mentalism piece or a piece of magic, its much like the age old argument of whether or not a mentalist should include playing cards in his set. Be defined by your character and how well you perform and not the type of material you perform.
Mac_Stone
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Quote:
On Jan 5, 2018, Luke Jonas wrote:
Be defined by your character and how well you perform and not the type of material you perform.


Nail on the head.
Jerskin
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What about mentalists that do magic effects? Kreskin comes to mind.
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