Hmmm, I would be concerned if the cups were too exact, meaning the cups were totally machined as some of the CNC products, whereas handcrafted work is bound to show slight imperfections as I doubt any human is perfect. I prefer the human touch...now that is real art. I doubt the imperfections would affect the working. I have several of Jim's cups and they are a beauty to behold and have found no problems with stacking or loading.

I guess collectors have changed their high expectations then. These would be unacceptable to most collectors that we have dealt with for the past 3 years. The noticible flat spots are far from slight imperfections, they look horrible on the tops of the cups. When we sent out the corrected run of PF stainless, some had a fingernail tip size swirl in the saddle. Needless to say the ones that recieved these contacted us and were replaced. So while one person may feel one way, another will feel different.

Quite frankly I feel the way George does about hand spinning because its factual, but there are many out there that don't share our views and expect more.

I for one feel the same way Jake does. That goes for anything I buy new. If my cups have any dings or dents or flat spots, I want to be the one that put them there.

I just weighed a set of Jumbo Risers that I sold on ebay.... The cups varied in weight from 7.3-7.5oz each (using a fancy postal scale)... I also weighed some of my gazzo's that I will be trying to sell some time in the near future, and their weights had the same type of variances.....

Fellows (and I use that term in the most non-gender specific sense of the word)

We are living in the Golden Age of Cups and Balls.

Right now, there are more different kinds of cups offered than at any other time in the history of the Art of Magic. The prices are quite reasonable, considering what inflation has done to them.

In the 1960's there were about half a dozen sets of cups manufactured in the US -- a dozen or so, if you consider the variations in metals. There were the P&L cups, the Abbott's cups (some made by P&L), the Kanter's cups (remainders of Brema stock), the PF/DD cups (two basic models), The Al Wheatley Chop Cups, and a few models from Europe.

Now we can purchase cups made by a multitude of manufacturers. These cups come in any size from slightly larger than a thimble to large enough to take a five inch load ball.

The prices aren't really that much different. The Consumer Price Index would indicate that the difference should be something like a factor of 4. However, if you compare prices in similar fields, that is not realistic. The price of a bottled soft drink is about 20 times that of what it was in 1950. Granted, the bottles contain more soft drink, but the bottles themselves cost more than the contents.

A Gibson banjo that listed for $100 in 1950 now lists for roughly $2500. That's a factor of 25. And look at the price of movie tickets and concert tickets. There is really no comparison.

So, let's figure that a set of PF/DD chick cups cost roughly $30 in 1960. That would have been when they came out. Similar cups from RnT II or James Riser cost $325 - $350. That's not bad at all.

And look at all the different things that are available. In 1960, you had a choice of two chop cups -- the tall one or the short one. Now look how many.

I'm just thankful that we have so many people around who know how to make cups.

I agree. And I also think that this Golden Age will not last forever.

I also agree about the quality of the RNT II mini-PF cups. I love my set and am grateful to live in a time when I can even own such a set.

Abbascup, the Riser mini-cups were made in copper. They are also virtually unobtainable. There are still a few sets of RNT II mini-PF cups in copper available. Why not check those out?

I just hope I can get the silver and gold Sherwoods before it all said and done.
It is great that we have so many choices in cups right now.
Mobius

I've got a set of Riser Mini's and they are a great set of cups. And I've been happy with all the Jim Riser crafted items I've purschased. Jim makes some beautiful stuff.
As much as I like the Riser Mini cups I did switch over to the RNTII Mini PF cups when they became available. As Frank mentioned, I also found that the Mini PF cups seem to handle better for me. In fact I like them so much I ended up buying sets in copper, stainless steel, and brass. Now if Jake produces a set in antique bronze...

LOL @ Mitch, ok now you have your brother inlaw peeking in the shop windows! I just turned a set to see how they would look and well, I'm happy Mitch, how did your sister make out with the flooding here? Hope all faired well for them.

Jake

Ray, thank you. We are just as fortunate to have peformers and collectors alike who compliment on our products.

One thing I would like to point out, my comments about the Riser Mini's are not an attack on Jim's work or the cups, these are personal observations. Since my time with RNT II I have NEVER ever pitched our product against another by downplaying someone else's cups, well maybe once, and the cups were made in India, but I kept the comparison factual. While anyone who owns a set of the Riser Minis find them to be the best mini's they have ever used, this is a VERY good thing, that means the customer/peformer is satisfied with their purchase and the craftmanship.

Others who have changed from one set to another have clearly stated why, it's the handling and the most important thing, they are a unique Individual with different expectations or limitations if any for a certain style cup. It's not that the RNT II cups is better made, or is better than the Riser Mini's, it's the bottom line of what the Peformer and individual feels about the props he's using.

No one, not myself or anyone employed here will use "bashing tactics" of another persons product to gain a sale. If they do, I would appreciate it very much if it were brought to my attention as quickly as possible.

The best in Magic and health to everyone!

Jake

Well I'm getting the Rnt2 PF minis. Jake is busy polishing some other cups for me. Luckily he still had a couple sets of these available. I like the PF style very much so I can't wait to have the minis in my hand.

I guarantee, once you get them, you'll love them.

Also, check out their glitter balls (I recommend red). They really make a difference.

Thanks Ray! I just sent a PM to Jake about these. They sound nice.

He wasn't peeking; He was just walking by your shop windows and happened to glance inside.
We'll have to talk about those antique bronze PF mini cups. Really.

http://www.jamesriser.com/Magic/MiniCup/Progress.html

I would e-mail Jim....he will be back Oct. 6 2006.
He will let you know about the cup availability
mobius

Jim's work is certainly worth the wait.

According to his website, Jim Riser will no longer be making the mini-cups he has offered in the past. He is working on a new design.

This post sure turned into a lot more than I was expecting. Thanks to everyone who posted here.

What the hell you trying to say Mitch? Ours isn't?

Jake

Now Jake, you know that ain't so. You certainly know how many RNTII items I am patiently waiting for right now. Patiently that is if you don't count all the phone calls and e-mails to you. Ha! And of course, all your stuff is certainly worth the wait. By the way, have we talked about those antique broze PF mini cups yet?