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dpe666
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Can this style of magick go too heavy? I don't think so. Smile
Gede Nibo
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Yes, in the sense that, in true form, our angle of this beloved Craft can and does forcefully cause the would be sleepwalker to awaken from their slumber and grasp the ungraspable.......we present, in our work, the possiblity of impossiblity, and this can rain down hard on a one who is stuck in the box of conformity and comfort, as it were...

I love this quality of our Magick, and I perpetuate it anytime I can--I love to see their brows raised, forcing them as I do, to admit that the "real" is not the "Real"..........

I don't come to simply entertain, neither to distract them from the mundane; I come to raise the Dead.

Frat:.

Baba



ps. WONDERFUL QUESTION---NOW LETS GET SOME HIGHER REASONINGS GOING ON HERE!!!
Bill Ligon
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As I have commented before, I try to open minds to a broader view of reality, to show that what we experience in ordinary life is but a fraction of Reality. There is wonder in it all and many miss experiencing that wonder as they struggle with the mundane and ordinary. Often, the darker aspects of Reality must be experienced to transcend the ordinary, to have one's eyes opened.

Naljorpa
Author of THE HOLY ART: Bizarre Magick From Naljorpa's Cave. NOW IN HARDCOVER! VIEW: <BR>www.lulu.com/content/1399405 ORDER: http://stores.lulu.com/naljorpa
<BR>A TASSEL ON THE LUNATIC FRINGE
tag
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Excuse me, it appears I accidentally stumbled into a Gurdjieff study group forum.

The minute you flakes start doing "the movements", I'm so out of here. I was hoping that with the death of the Grateful Dead we'd never have to see grown men doing the bubble dance ever again, but....
The fin is coming early this siecle
-Angela Carter
Gede Nibo
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DO I COME IN A COMMENT ON ALL OF YOUR STUPID, BASELESS POSTS?? NO, NOW BE GONE AND LEAVE US ALONE--

THERE ARE MANY ANGLES TO THIS CRAFT--AND SOME CHOOSE TO EMPLOY LIGHT AS THEIR BASIS AND TOOL FOR THEIR WORK...
dpe666
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Quote:
On 2006-09-10 00:20, tag wrote:
Excuse me, it appears I accidentally stumbled into a Gurdjieff study group forum.

The minute you flakes start doing "the movements", I'm so out of here. I was hoping that with the death of the Grateful Dead we'd never have to see grown men doing the bubble dance ever again, but....


What in the F*** are you talking about? Smile
Bill Ligon
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Tag, when you first appeared here I thought you might be an interesting performer and have something to contribute. I see I was wrong. I don't appreciate being called a "flake," especially by someone such as you. You have a right to your opinion (or so I'm told), but don't throw it at me.

Posted: Sep 10, 2006 12:04pm
The Dark and the Light are but two sides of the same coin.

In the words of Aleister Crowley, "...the world of magick is a mirror wherein one who sees muck is muck."

Nal
Author of THE HOLY ART: Bizarre Magick From Naljorpa's Cave. NOW IN HARDCOVER! VIEW: <BR>www.lulu.com/content/1399405 ORDER: http://stores.lulu.com/naljorpa
<BR>A TASSEL ON THE LUNATIC FRINGE
Dr Spektor
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Heck, it all depends what and how you do it. For example - mentalism by itself if freaky for many - then if you do a homicide booktest - that is even freakier (for the first time, my wife wouldn't let me practice that effect on her when it involved dead people - shucks (see other thread about sig. others putting limits on demon summoning and seances).... if you get really psychological you can really crawl into a spec's mind - hence why magic must be done with great respect - you can really scew up some people who are sensitive and vulnerable to a particluar theme or concept.
"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
Merlin C
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Much has rightly been discussed here of how bizarre magick doesn't have to be heavy, the value of light and shade, and how things can be circumstantially too heavy for you to pull off credibly, or be suitable for particular venues and audiences, be liable to make people tune out, unqualified performers trying to do therapy, etc.

But I don't see how it can be too heavy a priori; people make, and watch, stuff that's far more dramatically and philosophically weighty than any magic I've seen in person. 99 times out of 100 it's being not heavy enough that magicians still ought to worry about.

tag, what's your objection to mind-opening again?
Gede Nibo
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Dr. Spektor, Merlin, excellent points.....

In an era where blood and gore are the norm on the airwaves, the things we do are not nearly as numbing as this society and their chosen path of destruction, methinks...

I just wanna be a Cult Leader, is all Smile
Gede Nibo
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Quote:
On 2006-09-10 12:04, Bill Ligon wrote:
The Dark and the Light are but two sides of the same coin.

In the words of Aleister Crowley, "...the world of magick is a mirror wherein one who sees muck is muck."

Nal


YESSS!!!!!!
Bill Ligon
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Of course, there are a few who lack minds to open!

Nal
Author of THE HOLY ART: Bizarre Magick From Naljorpa's Cave. NOW IN HARDCOVER! VIEW: <BR>www.lulu.com/content/1399405 ORDER: http://stores.lulu.com/naljorpa
<BR>A TASSEL ON THE LUNATIC FRINGE
tag
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Wow, touchy little egos around here.

First of all, I find it funny that on a section of this site where a book named Psychological Subtleties is regularly recommended, without the aid of smilies some people miss the boat entirely.

Second:
Quote:
our angle of this beloved Craft can and does forcefully cause the would be sleepwalker to awaken from their slumber and grasp the ungraspable.


Now, one second of googling Gurdjieff would have pulled up this:
Quote:
Criticism of Gurdjieff's system probably spring mostly from his insistence that nearly all people today live in a state of "waking sleep."


And Gurdjieff's favorite manner of waking the sleepers?
Quote:
The feature film Meetings with Remarkable Men (1979), based on Gurdjieff's book by the same name, depicts rare performances of the sacred dances taught to serious students of his work known simply as the movements.


However, if you still want to believe that I called you a flake, far be it from me to stand in the way. Unless of course, you still bubble dance around your living room to Grateful Dead bootlegs. In which case, yes, I am undeniably calling you a flake.

Sorry sparkys, but one second of google would have saved you a whole lot of self-rightousness.

I did enjoy the Crowley quote, because let's see, a thelemite missing the joke and then falling back on quoting the Great Beast? Nah, that never happens. (Do I really need to include a smilie for that?) While we're on it, that is one show I'd love to see Bill, you explaining to Crowley how you used his quote to defend "magic", you know, the domain of "dilletantes and eccentrics". Now that would be a spectacle!
The fin is coming early this siecle
-Angela Carter
Gede Nibo
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OH, I get it NOW......
gaddy
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...In the beginning, the Shaman would mix magic (small "m" no k at the end...) and ritual to amaze, enlighten and cower the others of his tribe. I see no reason why one, so inclined, should not do so today. Gurdjieff, Great Beast or not!

Magic is a big place. You can do it in the gutter or you can do it in a sacred temple.
*due to The Magic Cafe's editorial policies, words on this site attributed to me cannot necessarily be held to be my own.*
coupcoupdaddy
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With the ATM in between!

H D X!

Lydias Seven
foreign correspondent, z and lt



inner being worker
Gede Nibo
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Quote:
On 2006-09-10 15:06, gaddy wrote:
...In the beginning, the Shaman would mix magic (small "m" no k at the end...) and ritual to amaze, enlighten and cower the others of his tribe. I see no reason why one, so inclined, should not do so today. Gurdjieff, Great Beast or not!

Magic is a big place. You can do it in the gutter or you can do it in a sacred temple.


Yes, Yes....I cover this to great extent in one of my essays in my book..much to be said about this....
Bill Ligon
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Quote:
On 2006-09-10 14:31, tag wrote:
Wow, touchy little egos around here.

First of all, I find it funny that on a section of this site where a book named Psychological Subtleties is regularly recommended, without the aid of smilies some people miss the boat entirely.

Second:
Quote:
our angle of this beloved Craft can and does forcefully cause the would be sleepwalker to awaken from their slumber and grasp the ungraspable.


Now, one second of googling Gurdjieff would have pulled up this:
Quote:
Criticism of Gurdjieff's system probably spring mostly from his insistence that nearly all people today live in a state of "waking sleep."


And Gurdjieff's favorite manner of waking the sleepers?
Quote:
The feature film Meetings with Remarkable Men (1979), based on Gurdjieff's book by the same name, depicts rare performances of the sacred dances taught to serious students of his work known simply as the movements.


However, if you still want to believe that I called you a flake, far be it from me to stand in the way. Unless of course, you still bubble dance around your living room to Grateful Dead bootlegs. In which case, yes, I am undeniably calling you a flake.

Sorry sparkys, but one second of google would have saved you a whole lot of self-rightousness.

I did enjoy the Crowley quote, because let's see, a thelemite missing the joke and then falling back on quoting the Great Beast? Nah, that never happens. (Do I really need to include a smilie for that?) While we're on it, that is one show I'd love to see Bill, you explaining to Crowley how you used his quote to defend "magic", you know, the domain of "dilletantes and eccentrics". Now that would be a spectacle!


How this mitigates calling us flakes is beyond me, although smilies would have made the thing more palatable.

My ego is not bruised; it may be a bit tweaked, but it isn't bruised.

I am aware of Gurdjieff's teachings and that he said most people are "asleep." I am also aware of his sacred dances or "movements." So, how googling any of this would have helped, I fail to grasp. I don't bubble dance or listen to the Greatful Dead, nor am I a follower of Gurdjieff, but I don't consider any of these objectionable in themselves.

Further, I am not a Thelemite although my own thinking has undeniably been influenced by Golden Dawn stuff, among other things. Quoting Crowley is no worse than quoting anyone else, really, although your point about defending "magic" is well taken. I wonder what Crowley would think about what we now call "bizarre magic."

BTW, that quote was directed at Arthur Edward Waite. My favorite quote from Crowley happens to be:

"We place no reliance on virgin or pigeon.
Our method is science, our aim is religion."

Naljorpa
Author of THE HOLY ART: Bizarre Magick From Naljorpa's Cave. NOW IN HARDCOVER! VIEW: <BR>www.lulu.com/content/1399405 ORDER: http://stores.lulu.com/naljorpa
<BR>A TASSEL ON THE LUNATIC FRINGE
coupcoupdaddy
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Virgin, green and small,

Shrivel leg,

Shrivel leg's dog,

Shrivel back and forth.

Let's see who is outside.

H D X!

--Lydias Seven

"We ain't heavy--we're our brother."
foreign correspondent, z and lt



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Dr Spektor
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My fav Crowley quote is "Do as thy wilt - that is the Law" - he was a wit, that one.

Back to Heaviness - Crowley knew how to present Bizarre Magick in a heavy way! Until he summoned the Beast - things went downhill after that.

(My fav Crowley action was where he got that artist (who was his fan) to shave bald and walk around virtually naked in Egypt - he'd tell people it was his Djinn. Crowley had guts to do real bizarre magick!)
"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
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