For Kohler's U3F coin set (as made by Todd Lassen):

Why weren't these coins made soft? The performance can be noisy.

Why was only one coin made a certain way (for those in the know) and not all 3? I think it would add flexibility to the performance.

I am considering having a soft set made with 3 like coins and wanted some opinions before I invested the dough.

Thanks!

To answer your question, From my point of view and nothing more. The way the gimmick was made and the coins was based on the routine. I am in no way saying that it can't be done the way you are wanting. In fact it makes sence if you are not doing Kholers routine with it. I don't do kholers routine even though I bought it. I use one of the moves from the routine but I just did not care for the rest. I think you are on to something. I have never had a problem with noise from my set which was the origonal set kholer sold. I now have a back up set from Todd that has a special something added to help aid the load(you know what I am talking about) I know that Todd makes all of them that way now. Good luck and happy findings.

sickmagic

Are you getting noise when doing the Kohler handling?

Yes, Jonathan, and to clarify it is the noise during the vanishes and productions that concern me. I have the original/older Lassen set without the special addition to aid in the handling.

Also, what do you think about having all 3 coins made to match (size) to increase their versatility within the routine?

Thanks.

Todd makes the gimmick with pre morgan dollars and it comes with.... if memory serves me 2 or 3 coins all that can be used with the gimmick.

That said I don't think you need to worry about using more than one of the special coins as I cant see how it would enhance the routine, other than not remembering which coin you gave to which person to inspect. I could easily be wrong on that though

You can send your set to Todd and he will turn down the other two coins to fit as well... He did that for me.

Having all 3 coins turned down has benefits in the Kohler routine.

Ronnie

If you don't mind me asking and it doesn't expose the trick, what are the benefits other than not having to pay attention to where the special coins goes when they are being examined. Just interested as I have a set including 3 coins made for the gimmick

thanks

If you order the set from Todd, all three coins work with the gimmick.

You might consider adding a supplement to your order from Todd, as I did -- e.g., a cut-down coin and a standard-size [] -- which in combination with the coins from the U3F set would also give you a four-coin-and-[] set for doing other effects (coins across, Translocation, etc).

Cheers,
Jerry

Well, coin tracking was the main benefit. Also, we all have those friends who want to closely examine everything. If all 3 match exactly, they'll withstand close scrutiny. Another is a variation in the routine that I have considered where the "special tool" can be transferred to the other hand and the switch can go the other way. Also, I like it for variations of coin productions and vanishes and I can Tenkai Pinch it with some skill.

I like to tool around with modifying the foundations of some routines.

With regards to my other concern...

How do you guys handle the "noise". Wouldn't soft coins be better?

One more thing, does anyone find soft coins harder to classic palm due to the smoother edges?

I just want to design the ultimate set...5-6 matching coins, with two or more different gaffs that will fit all the coins.

I have found soft coins harder to palm. As a solution I have taken a small fine edged file and re-edged the grooves on the side. It only takes about 2 strokes per line; one across and one back. I had an old machinist file which worked perfectly. Hope that helps.

I have found soft coins harder to palm. As a solution I have taken a small fine edged file and re-edged the grooves on the side. It only takes about 2 strokes per line; one across and one back. I had an old machinist file which worked perfectly. Hope that helps.

I don't know that noise is really a problem in the context of "3 Fly". Coins are traveling invisibly from hand to hand, is there any specific reason why they have to arrive silently? I never had anyone ever tell me, "Yea it went by magic, but I heard it happen!"

Many of the routines incorporate sound into it by having the coins audibly "clink" when they arrive.

As to your original question "Why weren't these coins made soft?" that's because with soft coins it can be a bit painstaking to find perfect matches for all the coins. There are people out there who go crazy if each coin is not the exact same patina, the exact same level of wear, the same dates, etc. It is easier to get pristine 1921 Morgans for uniformity. And, the routine doesn't need soft coins.

As to why all 3 coins were not modified - that's easy... Two more coins being machined = more time and money for something that is not essential for the routine.

Personally, I did like what Jerry said. After I used U3F for a while, I had it made up in soft coins just because I switched to soft coins. I had all the coins machined, and a regular shell to match them. I just did this to make everything more versitile. In fact, the Morgans I used on my DVD "Coin Man Walking" are this set - though I don't use the U3F gimmick - just the coins and regular ].

Soft coins are helpful for stack work and keeping them silent when secretly adding to, subtracting from, or moving multiple coins around. None of that stuff is done in U3F though.

As for having all coins of the same size for Kohler's routine, the only advantage is that you don't need to keep track of your coins if you pass them around.

Lassen does sell two different sets.

One set he indicates "The coins themselves are "pristine" 1921 AU grade Morgans with original mint luster. Each set contains gaff with insert coin and 2 ungaffed matching Morgan dollars. NOW with Teflon coating!! No routine is provided."

The other set he indicates are also available in soft pre 1921 morgan dollars with all THREE insert coins shaved and remilled to fit the gaff.

I am assuming that the first set mention above is the one supplied with Kohlers U3F routine.

Dan - great info - thanks for the thorough reply! The noise that concerned me is the scraping during some of the moves. I figured that soft coins would muffle it. I do agree, however, that clinks and chinks often add to the effect of a routine and they do have their place in 3 Fly routines including U3F.

Side note--thanks to all who have helped me with this ever so desirable dilemma. As a new guy, I am impressed with the depth of knowledge and willingness to share that I have found here.

Thanks!

I have been performing the original U3F without the special teflon since it came out. Keep working with it. Eventually, over enough performances your handling will be smooth enough to eliminate the scraping and you can concentrate on jingling them together. Th eother noise when they appear is a positive to the routine in my opinion. The scraping makes your skin crawl(especially for the price) when your hear it. Before you know it you get comforatble enough and you will rarely ever have that happen. Keep working them.

As in all things in life there are trade offs. The 10 original sets that were handmade by Robert Cabral and Michael Forbes were soft. The U3F coins were pristine. It's true that soft coins make less noise. I don't believe in the context of the routine this is a problem. Also most situations are just not as quiet as where we practice. In the real world the noise is just more of the din.

One major advantage of using the pristine Morgans is if you keep them shiny they show up much better in dim lighting conditions I run into at a lot of shows. I have both types of sets and I really don't have a preference...it's just U3F.

I also do not use the teflon. I think it is visible as a dark line when the audience has a direct line of sight to the edge. The sets without teflon slide just fine. Just my two cents...

Thank you for your input, Bob. I do practice in a pretty quiet place and so far I've not had anyone remark on the noise when I perform it. I guess a performer is his own most critical spectator--but that's a good thing!

Anyone playing with Al's Osmosis routine using the u3f set?

Jonathan: where's it in print? I'm always on the look out for uses for the u3f gimmick