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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Finger/stage manipulation » » Silver Goblet Manipulation (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

DerekMerdinyan
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_TBKY3rGA4

I am curious what your reaction is to this.

I'm only asking for comments on the very opening production - I already know what's wrong in the other parts.

Derek Merdinyan
WKM
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I thought that it was very good. Perhaps the opening burn could be longer, and maybe if you were able to move a little more before enterint the goblet.

But otherwise very good.
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Stanyon
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Actually, I thought that the last bit of manipulation, yellow fan, was interesting.

FWIW

Cheers! Smile
Stanyon

aka Steve Taylor

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Thommy Razor
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Well done! I like the multiplying sodas.
Cheers!
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Bill Hegbli
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Derek,

You have very good potential for silent magic. I was very impressed with all of your ideas.

I would hold the goblet upright for the vanish. Just change positions.
The coke can split on the 1st can, you brought the can up to far away from the 1st can you were holding. Bring the split can closer to the 1st can, so the audience can make the connection.

Good job. Find a costume you like and yo will have the makings for a good magic act.
DerekMerdinyan
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I must say I am surprised by all the criticism - I was afraid of getting burned for flashes...

I am working on modifying the goblet production for a longer burn and more movement.

Wmhegbli - to be honest, I'd never thought of doing the first 'split' of the coke cans close together. My original idea was to produce more soda cans then I could carry. The key word is produce... not multiply. Unfortuantely I couldn't perform the actual productions for long as my hands quickly filled up beyond capacity. I altered the handling, added more cans, changed it into a 'multiplying' sequence, and oops... didn't notice the first production should be done closer. Thanks!

Derek Merdinyan
Paul Jester
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I'm impressed! You're far more creative than most magic acts I've seen! I love the cross-overs in thought, the goblet is a fascinating object to manipulate. Keep it up! (But keep that elbow down Smile )
Paul
magic4u02
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Wonderful job and some very creative thinking here. I applaude you for thinking outside of the box and really working on developing sequences that are unique and interesting to watch. Your sequences are good and you would only need to work on transitional effects that would allow you to transition smoothly from one sequence into the other. This makes the act more fluid for the audience watching it.

Also, make sure to add in applause cues for the audience. A lot of manipulators do not do this. They do each sequence one after the other and the audience has no time to really appreciate what just happened or given enough time to react to it. You can add in applause cues simply by 1) pausing for a 3 second count and 2)ending in a pose or posture that is an audience cue to applaude you.

As already discussed and as you probably already know, work on the positioning of where you steals are located. The steals are nice but you are working much too hard on yourself by having to raise that elbow up higher to make the steal. when the elbow raises it can be seen so work on keeping it down by having your steals located in positions that work best for you.

Also, keep in mind your posture and position yourself in such a way so you back does not block as much of one side of your audience. I am still working hard on this one part myself and I always try and remember to stand at a 45 degree angle whenever I can so that the audience can see what I am doing. I also watch that I do not over extend or turn too much when my steals are made. Another problem many face is that we tend to over turn too much when doing the body steal.

Your goblet production is very nice and clean and a great opener effect for you. The only thing I would say is a different way of producing the goblet back. I would like to see you try and do the reappearance of it almost like you would a candle production. Perhaps you pause after the vanish and get your applause cue and then you bring the silk up vertically once, twice and then produce it so that it is a vertical production. PM me if you would like details. Another idea for the reappearance is to grab the cloth in both hands and show front and back. Then you wisk the cloth away to show the goblet back standing upright in the palm of your hand.

Another suggestion is to produce the goblet. Then take out the silk and use the silk to polish up the goblet. This gives you more reason for using the silk and adds in the misdirection of it. It gives a bit more reason for using it.

Another idea for the multiplying cans (which I like), is to actually produce one and go up as to act like you are drinking it, in the act of coming down, you now have 2 of them. Add in puases after each production just a little bit so the audience has time to react to it.

I think you are very well on your way to a unique and creative act and I really thank you for putting the time into this and posting it here for us to see. Keep working on it as you are on the right track for sure.

Kyle
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SenseiStrange
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In response to the response above -

I hate applause cues. They look cheesy, and they break the trance that a great piece of magic creates. Of course this is just my opinion, but a valid one that a lot of magicians should think about. It depends on performance style I suppose, but unlike conventional magic wisdom dictates - appaulse cues and poses are not an essential part of magical performace.

I like the video. Nice ideas to start looking at - I look forward to seeing more in the future.
magic4u02
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Sensei: I agree to an extent. I hate when it is done in a way that it comes off as begging the audience to applaude you. In that way it goes way over the top. However, there are subtle ways (through the use of proper theater) that you can have a pause in the act at certain times that are logical. In this way the audience is given a chance to relax and applaude if they choose to. It is not done over the top at all and is very subtle in nature.

However, you must have pauses in the act. The audience can not take so much magic happening at such a pace for any length of time. You must give them time to absorb what has just happened and then react appropriately to it.

I agree to disagree in the statement you made that said, ""applause cues and poses are not an essential part of magical performance". now this is not meant as a personal attack on you by any means and I hope it is not taken as so.

I just feel strongly that it IS an important part of any magical performance. Any good performer knows that he or she is not performing up there for him or herself. They are up there to perform and entertain their audience. In order to allow the audience to really enjoy what they are watching, then there must be pauses built into the acts and routines and the show in order to give the audience this time to absorb what they are watching and react to it. Give them the time to be entertained.

Now as I stated above, this does not have to be done so over the top. you do not have to come to the front of the stage with arms held out bowing and smiling ear to ear. That is a bit too much. What I am talking about is the art of subtle pauses built into the act you are doing. It is a rule for me that after I do a sequence of magic in my act that I have built in a logical 3 second pause. 3 seconds is not a lot of time but it is a perfect length of time for an audience to be able to react to what I just performed and react to it if they chose to do so.

another way to add in this pause moment is by transition of the pace of the act. For example you may start your manipulation act with a fast paced sequence of the fire to goblet and multiplying goblets and end up with a large one. This may be done very fast paced to music that goes with it. After the production of the jumbo goblet. You can wisk away the silk and stand with the goblet in your outstretched hand. The music then changes at this point. you pause as you take the goblet and place it down on a table and the next sequence begins. Not only does the sequence change but the music does as well.

perhaps you go from the fast paced action of the opener to a slower piece of magic that goes with slower music. the tempo now has changed and this gives your audience not only a chance to catch their breath but this transitional moment also gives them time to react to what they just saw.

I feel this is not done over the top at all but is a subtle way of using theater into your magical presentation to allow your audiences to really be engaged in what you are doing. there is no reason why the audience should not be given the opportunity to applaude what they are seeing and let you know they are enjoying your act.

It is just my opinion is all on the subject and I thank you for letting me share my ideas.

Kyle
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Magic Enhancer
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I agree with Kyle. You need applause cues. Make them subtle.
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magic4u02
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Thank you robert for the complement. I appreciate that. It is only my opinion but I feel that you can use them effectively and still keep the magic flowing and not take away from the experience but add to it.

Kyle
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Paul Jester
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No Kyle, it's not just your opinion, it's the facts of good theatre.

Always, always, always routine in time for your audience to applause, if you're any good, they'll be upset with you if you don't let them clap for you. Also audiences don't know when to clap, so you have to tell them, hence you are routining applause cues.

Paul
magic4u02
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Well, I do not want to get away from the main focus of this thread so I am going to jump on over to the thread that Sensei has so kindly created as I think it is a great topic worth talking more about. I want to make sure this thread gets back on topic about the video that Derek so kindly showed us and not take away from that. However, thank you Paul for your kind words. I do appreciate them and hope you will add your thoughts to the new thread topic.

Kyle
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Bill Hegbli
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Quote:
On 2006-09-22 16:13, DerekMerdinyan wrote:
I must say I am surprised by all the criticism - I was afraid of getting burned for flashes...

I am working on modifying the goblet production for a longer burn and more movement.

Wmhegbli - to be honest, I'd never thought of doing the first 'split' of the coke cans close together. My original idea was to produce more soda cans then I could carry. The key word is produce... not multiply. Unfortuantely I couldn't perform the actual productions for long as my hands quickly filled up beyond capacity. I altered the handling, added more cans, changed it into a 'multiplying' sequence, and oops... didn't notice the first production should be done closer. Thanks!

Derek Merdinyan


I have not read any criticism comments in this string. There have been some constructive advice. But the magic is very good and your ideas unique.
BenSalinas
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Derek,
Great moves! Good thinking. Mold these into a routine that makes some sense out of the various objects you produce and you have a real winner. Find a common environment where all these items would fit (chinese restaurant, museum, etc) and you'll have a wonderful act.
And don't forget the applause cues (thanks Kyle!) They are an extremely important part of any performance, magic or otherwise. Jeff McBride's King of Cards act is a perfect example of great applause cues.

Hope to see you competing with this act soon!

Ben S
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magic4u02
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Thanks Ben for the kind words my friend. I agree in that a manipulative act that can think outside of the box is certainly an act I feel that is more creative and will get noticed. Too many folks out there are already trying to sell manipulation as skill alone. That is not a wrong thing, but there is so much more you can give your audiences if you just open yourself up to thinking in creative terms.

Kyle
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Professor Piper
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Derek...

Loved the video...You definately have a grasp on your own style and 'take' on manipulation...

As others have said, you are thinking outside the box and that is WONDERFUL!

I, too, really enjoyed your Yellow Fan manipulation...I see shades of Michael Moschen in that routine...If you don't know who he is, he is the Juggler who invented "Contact Juggling"...He is also a Dancer, Choreographer, and Manipulation expert...

See, "In Motion with Michael Moschen" available from http://www.Dube.com amoung other sources to see what I mean....He does a routine using stainless steel large rings in much the same way as your Yellow fan work...>Check his video out for more ideas and possiblities.

Keep up the great work pal!

Prof. Piper
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DerekMerdinyan
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Thanks again for all the compliments guys, I love all the encouragement. I think I may need to keep this page bookmarked to come back when magical times get tough Smile

I am working on a new polished routine, some of the stuff in here will be used - lots of it (sadly) won't. Perhaps I'll post another video in a few weeks time when these sequences and many others come together.

Prof. Piper - I will look into Mr. Moschen's work; although I remain skeptical that his method for floating the silver rings is anywhere close to the floating fan - its WAY too angly to perform with a ring (but works perfectly with a fan!)

Best

Derek Merdinyan
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