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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Ever so sleightly » » Brass Porper cups (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Mad Jake
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Well you're incorrect in a lot of ways at assuming they are overpriced, one the cups you've compared them to are made by other crafters and do vary in price. No other vendors who sell Joe's cups vary in price, Joe is very strict about that, there is no price wars with Porper cups. Joe also includes the wand and the case with his sets.

If you REALLY understood the way the market works, you would not have made the comment that the cups are overpriced. Are you aware of what it takes to actualy make a simple thing such as a cup? Yet alone cups that are balanced, spun correctly so they stack without rocking? Not many know how much work goes into the Tooling alone to make the cups and while a lot say "oh CNC is all computerized" well that is true, but who sits down and designs the cup in the CAD program? And what looks good on the screen doesn't always end up looking the same on the CNC mill.

What people look at is the bottom line price that's all. Is that all you get? Whats so special? You're paying for craftmanship, knowledge and so on.

Cup prices have been discussed many times on the Café, there are threads in the archives, bottom line is know one knows but the manufaturer or the craftsman what it costs to produce for the public.

Why produce if costs are so high? Because we are PROUD and LOVE what we do. It's always been the same answer in the end.

Jake
For quality Paul Fox Cups spun on Danny Dew's Paul Fox tooling visit us at www.airshipmagic.com
walid ahumada
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By the way, how much does the rnt phoenix II set cost ?.
are you gonna sell them ? or tom frank ?
“Magic becomes art when it has nothing to hide.” BEN OKRI quote
Mad Jake
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For quality Paul Fox Cups spun on Danny Dew's Paul Fox tooling visit us at www.airshipmagic.com
walid ahumada
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Txs jake, I like those cups (and the price), I would like to see a picture of the copper ones
“Magic becomes art when it has nothing to hide.” BEN OKRI quote
Mad Jake
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Hi those are the copper ones, at this time that is all we are producing.
For quality Paul Fox Cups spun on Danny Dew's Paul Fox tooling visit us at www.airshipmagic.com
plungerman
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The copper Porper cups cost me about the same as you see on the current web site. The case and wand were not mentioned or offerred. And by the way, that's how I end up getting most nice things, overpaying.

Thanks for the info Jake.
GeorgeG
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One additional factor in the prices of magic apparatus, whether it be cups or any other prop, is that these are generally produced in SMALL numbers. When you consider the work and tool investment, the profit at the end can not amount to much. Hence, like Jake stated, all this stuff is really a labor of love and I salute these people for their dedication. To me nothing of quality in magic is "overpriced"...just wished I had more money to spend.
Richard Evans
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Generally, you get what you pay for. Joe Porper's cups are beautifully made and presented - and are made in small numbers. You also know that they're going to be of the highest quality AND they also work!

It would be fairer to say that the Penguin cups are overpriced: mass-produced, poorly finished, sometimes they don't nest well - plus there's great variability so you don't know what you'll get for your $99. It's up to you if you think it's worth paying eight times that amount for the Porper set.

You're lucky (we're all lucky) that there are so many cups to choose from right now that you can pick whatever set suits you best in both price and design.
I have six locks on my door all in a row. When I go out, I only lock every other one. I figure no matter how long somebody stands there picking the locks, they are always locking three. Elayne Boosler
Mad Jake
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Just got my hands on a set of Brass Porpers! I'm not much of a brass fan for working cups, but these are gems, just like the copper and stainless. Just waiting for the Cocobola cups to arrive next week and Joe's acreage in my display case is complete Smile

Jake
For quality Paul Fox Cups spun on Danny Dew's Paul Fox tooling visit us at www.airshipmagic.com
Bill Palmer
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Quote:
On 2006-09-25 18:16, walid ahumada wrote:
I am not an expert howerver I can tell you this cups are quite overprice unless they are much,much,much better quality than sherwood smooth cups.


Walid:

You are right. You are not an expert. You have undoubtedly never seen these cups, so you don't know what the package includes. There is also a handmade, high quality wand, which unscrews in the middle for takedown. They come in a box that is milled to fit the cups and balls, as well as the wand. The design on the box is inlaid, not painted.

Some of the cups you are listing in your comparisons are not available at this time. For example, the Riser cups are not available. They are a short run item and are sold out almost as quickly as they are produced. Why don't you compare the price of the Porper cups to the price of the Jeff Busby CNC cups?

They are not for everyone, though.

Addendum:

I see where you got your prices. Let me explain something about cups and balls, and the use of sites like Doug Atkinson's Cups and Balls article. That site was updated over a year ago. Doug doesn't always do his homework. He was cutting and pasting prices from GKW. (God Knows Where). Note that he lists the Millenium cups at $500. You can't even find a set of these. He also lists the van Dokkum silver cups at $725. Those cups did not even exist until this year. I have the only set. They cost a heck of a lot more than $725. The CW cups haven't been produced for years. They will never be produced again. And his price for those is outrageously low.

Don't get your "expertise" by quoting crap you google. Learn from people who actually have the products you are bashing.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
Josh Riel
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What, out of curiosity, is the approximate time frame for making a set of cups? From the blank to ready for shipment. I want to put a price to how much it would cost my company to make one. Just for !@#$ and giggles

I work with metal, but do not have any experience with spinning.

Unless one updates their price list daily, with the cost of steel, etc. rising as bizarrely as it has, you would probably be wrong in several weeks time even were you spot on today. Most folk cannot stockpile metal to last a year (Even though I'm sure many wish they had now), so the prices can hardly be expected to remain the same.

Seems like the recycling payout for copper is a little too close to the new sale price not too far in the past.

Good cups are expensive, perhaps for many, too expensive. But not overpriced. Unless you think the Skilled Craftsman who makes the cups does not deserve a paycheck.

The problem lies in people selling $100 worth of stuff for $50. Then people get the impression that it's only worth $50. Just because you can get cups for under $100, does not mean good cups should retail for that.
Magic is doing improbable things with odd items that, under normal circumstances, would be unnessecary and quite often undesirable.
BSutter
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Josh,
I can not answer your question. To get a time frame for spinning Cups I would email James Riser at: jriser@jamesriser.com

To get a time frame for CNC machining Cups I would Contact Auke van Dokkum at:
Address
Havelaar 37
8321 ZA URK
The Netherlands
Phone
+31 527 684 729
Fax
+31 527 690 057
Mobile
+31 653 55 11 59


Bill
walid ahumada
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Quote:
On 2006-11-07 09:39, Bill Palmer wrote:
Quote:
On 2006-09-25 18:16, walid ahumada wrote:
I am not an expert howerver I can tell you this cups are quite overprice unless they are much,much,much better quality than sherwood smooth cups.


Walid:

You are right. You are not an expert. You have undoubtedly never seen these cups, so you don't know what the package includes. There is also a handmade, high quality wand, which unscrews in the middle for takedown. They come in a box that is milled to fit the cups and balls, as well as the wand. The design on the box is inlaid, not painted.

Some of the cups you are listing in your comparisons are not available at this time. For example, the Riser cups are not available. They are a short run item and are sold out almost as quickly as they are produced. Why don't you compare the price of the Porper cups to the price of the Jeff Busby CNC cups?

They are not for everyone, though.

Addendum:

I see where you got your prices. Let me explain something about cups and balls, and the use of sites like Doug Atkinson's Cups and Balls article. That site was updated over a year ago. Doug doesn't always do his homework. He was cutting and pasting prices from GKW. (God Knows Where). Note that he lists the Millenium cups at $500. You can't even find a set of these. He also lists the van Dokkum silver cups at $725. Those cups did not even exist until this year. I have the only set. They cost a heck of a lot more than $725. The CW cups haven't been produced for years. They will never be produced again. And his price for those is outrageously low.

Don't get your "expertise" by quoting crap you google. Learn from people who actually have the products you are bashing.

o.k. bill, I got you.......(relax)
“Magic becomes art when it has nothing to hide.” BEN OKRI quote
Bill Palmer
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The timeframe for spinning one set of cups is almost the same as the timeframe for spinning a run of 25 sets. Part of it has to do with the annealing process. You spin a cup down to a certain point. Then you anneal it. While it is annealing, you spin another cup down to the same point. This is done until the annealing of the first piece is complete. Then you start spinning again until you reach the second annealing point. You can get an idea of the number of annealing points in the spinning of a cup by looking at my web site.

CNC machining doesn't require the annealing that spinning does. That's because the metal is being cut away rather than manipulated. CNC machining does not have the same adverse effects on a piece of metal that spinning has.

The one point where it all comes together is in the polishing process. There is very little that can be done to hurry that up.

The spun cups from MM are generally not annealed. Consequently, down the road, you will see cracks in the mouth beads.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
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