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Ron Reid Inner circle Phoenix, Arizona 2732 Posts |
Hi All:
I can't think of any reason why this would be offensive, but I'd like your opinion just to be on the safe side. I've been doing a 20th Century Silk routine for many years - it's the old Arnold Furst routine where each silk represents a character in the story (dark silk is the villan, yellow is the heroine, multi-colored is the hero). It's an old time melodrama routine where the audience cheers when the hero silk is held up, applauds when the heroine is held up, and boo when the villan is held up. This interaction happens as I'm telling the story, so there's lots of audience involvement. Anyway, I think I'm going to switch in an American Flag silk to represent the hero instead of the multi-colored silk. This is a good thing - right? People will be cheering the American Flag silk that represents the hero. There's nothing offensive or disrespectful here, is there? Just want to make sure. I don't think there's any disrespect to flag. Thanks for your opinion. Ron |
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Smoke & Mirrors Special user 506 Posts |
As long as the show is not in Venezuela or France. (just kidding)
my opinion...wave them colors with pride. |
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Steve V Inner circle Northern California 1878 Posts |
I don't think so, as long as you present it with respect.
Steve V |
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Skip Way Inner circle 3771 Posts |
I certainly don't see an issue with it...and this from a conservative retired military vet and ex-cop. Go for it!
Skip
How you leave others feeling after an Experience with you becomes your Trademark.
Magic Youth Raleigh - RaleighMagicClub.org |
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Ron Reid Inner circle Phoenix, Arizona 2732 Posts |
Thanks, Aaron, Steve, and Skip. I appreciate your time.
Ron |
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Josh the Superfluous Inner circle The man of 1881 Posts |
As a liberal, pacifist, ex rock star, I don't see a problem either.
What do you want in a site? "Honesty, integrity and decency." -Mike Doogan
"I hate it, I hate my ironic lovechild. I didn't even have anything to do with it" Josh #2 |
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Michael238 Inner circle 1192 Posts |
I do not see a problem, I like the idea.
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Skip Way Inner circle 3771 Posts |
I KNEW it!!! Only a pacifist Liberal cold get away with an avatar like that!! I smell conspiracy!!!
:)
How you leave others feeling after an Experience with you becomes your Trademark.
Magic Youth Raleigh - RaleighMagicClub.org |
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KC Cameron Inner circle Raleigh, North Carolina 1944 Posts |
Hmmm, I think that other countries, at the moment, may not see the American Flag as a symbol of heroism . . . . I would avoid doing this routine in Libya, Iran, and well, anywhere outside of the US for the moment. This is coming from a plain old can't-make-up-his-mind middle of the roader, ex-military green beanie.
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threecardmonte Loyal user 278 Posts |
I agree with everybody else. Good idea.
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JamesinLA Inner circle Los Angeles 3400 Posts |
Then again, you may be performing for recent imigrants who may have mixed feelings about it. Of course, we're supposed to be the melting pot.
Jim
Oh, my friend we're older but no wiser, for in our hearts the dreams are still the same...
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Regan Inner circle U.S.A. 5726 Posts |
I think it's sad that we have to worry whether or not we might offend someone by using the American Flag in a magic show here in America.
Regan
Mister Mystery
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rossmacrae Inner circle Arlington, Virginia 2475 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-09-28 21:23, Regan wrote: Stop that. It's not the point at all. I think it's just too easy to have "American flag good, every other color bad." Doesn't that verge on a much-too-simplistic jingoism? You'll get easy applause, but is it as positive as it might be? I think with a little tweak in the spin of it, you could have a fine (and, yes, PATRIOTIC) routine that would have wide utility. I get great response from "mismade flag" with a wide range of audiences, especially military ones. It all climaxes, as you know, with "Yay! It's an American flag!". It's a must-include for 4th-of-July shows. But I wouldn't feel quite so comfortable with "the American flag kicks the bad guy's butts!" as a climax. Especially where I live, with half the families being from somewhere else ("I need some volunteers, how about Jimmy and Mary and Bobby and Ramakrishna and Jose and Ahmed.") How about the good silk being red-white-blue-stars but not a flag? You get the meaning, but it doesn't smash you in the face getting there. |
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Ron Reid Inner circle Phoenix, Arizona 2732 Posts |
Thanks again for all the replies. Very helpful.
Regan: I wasn't concerned at all about offending anyone by using the flag in my show. I do a version of Barry Mitchell's Flag-O-Matic in my show. I mainly wanted to make sure I wasn't being disrespectful by having the flag represent the hero in the story. Honestly, I couldn't think of any reason why anyone would be offended, but the flag is very sacred to many, and I wanted to make sure I wasn't offending some folks in my ignorance of proper protocol. Thanks again, everyone. Ron |
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MagicRabbit Regular user 176 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-09-28 22:13, rossmacrae wrote: Then I think you over-interpreted the routine. It's a magic trick at a magic show. Chill. It may not be your style, but don't tell another poster to stop posting their view. That's wrong bud. Especially in AMERICA. rabbit |
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SleepingJag New user NC 35 Posts |
Ron I don't believe that you are disrespecting the flag any in this presentation.
Bethea Baker
The Price of Freedom isn't free |
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kaytracy Inner circle Central California 1793 Posts |
As a person who is not afraid to remove a flag that is being displayed improperly, or write to companies that DO mis-use, I do not see any issues.
After all, it has not been that long ago that in this country we did not have any codified "rules" about how the flag should be handled/treated/displayed. Much less any standardization about how many of what (other than the stars) or sizes of the elements. A number of interesting variants form the 1800's abound! The flag code of the US (not put into place until 1923) is intended to be voluntary, and a guide for proper display of the US flag by civilians. The military and government folks see this a bit differently! My personal take on this is, as long as you do not drop or throw to the floor, mash it into your pocket, I do not have any issues with your use of the flag! (Working in a message of respect is a nice touch...) Have a great show, and have fun! Kay
Kay and Tory
www.Bizarremagick.com |
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KC Cameron Inner circle Raleigh, North Carolina 1944 Posts |
If it is a question of "flag protocol" then yes, the routine and pretty much every flag routine is disrespectful of the American flag. Using the flag for entertainment IS a problem. It is be revered, and I don't think the founding fathers would appreciate "ta-da" upon displaying a flag that is probably wrinkled or at least not folded properly. Since the '60 we have lost the reverence for the flag, and it is not uncommon to see a flag patch on the backside of someone's jeans. This is a symbol people have DIED over - and many of us know people that did.
Will this and other flag routines offend most people? Probably not, but they should. While your intent is "pure" the action does fall well into disrespect. Here is a link that can give you an idea of how a flag SHOULD be treated. http://www.usa-flag-site.org/etiquette-display.shtml http://www.gruntsmilitary.com/flag.shtml and here is a site that is selling a BOOK on flag etiquette! http://flagetiquette.org/ BTW, If someone should disagree, I would have to ask exactly what they have sacrificed for their country? Quote:
I think it's sad that we have to worry whether or not we might offend someone by using the American Flag in a magic show here in America. - Where else are we going to offend people by mis-using the flag? Iraq? Are you saying using the American flag to amuse people and breaking all sorts of rules/traditions is trivial?? What is worse, burning a flag, or crumpling it up, dropping it on the ground, mis-folding it, or mis-displaying it? Answer: The proper way to dispose of a flag is to BURN it. The act of burning a flag is not disrespectful, but all of the others are disrespectful - and these are done in magic routines every day. Quote:
It's a magic trick at a magic show. Rabbit, are you telling Ross to stop posting his views???? - someone told me that is wrong bud. Especially in AMERICA. - oh yeah, that was you. Questioning authority is what our founding fathers were all about! So you think it is ok to use a flag in a simple magic trick to amuse children - and indocrinate them that the US is always the hero??? Your reverence to the flag is so little that it can be used to amuse children???? If someone you knew died out of reverence to that flag, would you still hold this **** opinion? If a flag would be ok, then why not use a photo of one of our military heroes that died defending it? Does that not bother you either? The flag represents all the sacrifices made by millions, so lets not be trite. I personally don't care for flag routines even if it were possible to do them w/o disrespect. The U.S. is NOT always in the right and to think our politicians are knights on white horses is pretty ludicrous. There is so much flag disrespect now, along with the idea that to be patriotic you have to agree with the government . . . it is hard to believe that our country was founded on the idea to question authority! I have spent 6 years in MI & SF, spent lots of time “killing commies for your mommies” so I think I have a pretty good right to my opinion, and a fair knowledge base to back it up. Go ahead with the routine. It is more a sad commentary on the US that no one will object to it - and even cheer. Ok, I woke up on the wrong side of the bed today, but at least I am accurate. |
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Donald Dunphy Inner circle Victoria, BC, Canada 7563 Posts |
I thought to properly dispose of a damaged / worn out flag, the protocol was to bury it, not burn it. That was what I remember learning in Scouts Canada.
- Donald
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
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Regan Inner circle U.S.A. 5726 Posts |
Captain,
You must have woke up on the wrong side of the bed. You also misunderstood my statement. Maybe I missed the point of Ron's routine, but I was just trying to say that it is bad that we have to worry about displaying our flag because we might offend someone, right here in America. Magic show aside, that's all I meant. You don't need to educate me on the proper display and disposal of the American Flag. I was taught that from an early age by my father, who is a World War II Veteran. Regan
Mister Mystery
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