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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16543 Posts |
I just read this and thought you guys might be interested. I don't really get it. I mean I don't get why.
"Internet gambling companies are preparing to cash in their dollar chips as the impact of a new US law sinks in, with many preparing to suspend access to real money gambling by US customers. Last week Congress passed the Safe Port Act, which also included the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act of 2006, aimed at cracking down on online gambling companies by making it illegal for banks and credit card companies to make payments to online gambling sites. After the act was passed, senate majority leader Bill Frist said: "Although we can't monitor every online gambler or regulate offshore gambling, we can police the financial institutions that disregard our laws." Shares in many online gambling companies plunged by 50 per cent this morning in response. Should the act be signed into law by President Bush - expected in the next two weeks - many gambling companies are likely to suspend real money gambling with US customers, pulling out of the US market, where many have the bulk of their customers. PartyGaming said the law, which it described as the first piece of federal legislation dealing explicitly with internet gaming, "does make clear that the US government intends to stop the flow of funds from Americans to online gaming operators through criminal sanction". And it added that if the act is signed into law it will make it "practically impossible" for the company to provide US residents with access to its real money gambling sites. If the President signs the act into law, PartyGaming said it "will suspend all real money gaming business with US residents, and such suspension will continue indefinitely, subject to clarification of the interpretation and enforcement of US law and the impact on financial institutions of this and other related legislation". It said should US activities be suspended, the company will look to "realign" its cost base and warned "any such suspension would also result in the Group's financial performance falling significantly short of consensus forecasts for 2006 and 2007". 888 also said it will "suspend participation by US-based customers in activities covered by the legislation. The company will implement this suspension immediately upon the legislation taking effect and the suspension will continue for so long as the legal situation remains the same". Sportingbet said that as a result of the passing of the act, it has discontinued talks with World Gaming with regards to a potential offer by Sportingbet for World Gaming. Sportingbet also added: "Should Sportingbet's non-US international banking partners determine that the act applied to them, then Sportingbet would no longer be able to take deposits from US residents and this would have a material impact on the company's trading performance."
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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gump New user 58 Posts |
Why?
I would guess that the brick-and-mortar casinos (Vegas, Atlantic City, Indian casinos, etc) may have had a hand in pressuring (lobbying?) congress to pass this new law, since they have been feeling the effects of online gaming in their wallets. I could be wrong though. |
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Expertmagician Inner circle 2478 Posts |
I also think part of the problem was online cheating using "Poker Bots" which makes collusion possible for a MAJOR unfair advantage for people who play without "Poker Bots".
In addition, off shore Internet gambling allows the people who run the games to see people cards and lord knows "swing the odds" in certain people's favor I don't know if this has been proven, but, anyone who knows about computers also knows it is possible with simple programming. At least in a private or brick and morter game, your stand a chance to see a cheat. In cyberspace people can't see bits
Long Island,
New York |
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gump New user 58 Posts |
There is almost always the chance of collusion in a poker game whether online or offline. However, there are plenty of people willing to bear that risk for the sheer convenienve that online gaming provides. Plus, any online casino that developed a reputation for running a less-than honest game would surely see their pigeons flock elsewhere.
That being said, I definately agree that there is a greater chance of something funny going on in any type of internet gaming environment. And I'm sure you'd be hard pressed to find a card counter trying to beat a game of online blackjack. On the subject of "swinging the odds", here's an article from a few years ago detailing one way of cheating in online poker: http://www.cigital.com/papers/download/d......ling.php Of course that particular security hole has long been fixed, but it raises the question what other vulnerabilities are out there... Now if you'll excuse me, I have to get back to a game of online hold 'em. |
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chappers New user 30 Posts |
I think that there is a strong element of protectionism involved in the passing of this law and quite honestly I feel sorry for players in the USA who will no longer be able to play.
That said, and I say this without knowledge of the minutae of the bill, I believe that there will be plenty of loopholes which will allow US enthusiasts to play: perhaps many players have bank accounts in other countries, perhaps thousands will "pop across the border" to open bank accounts and so on. Gambling like prostitution is one of the oldest social activities and will never disappear and I just feel that the powers that be in the US are being petty minded and arrogant. It's par for the course in the current world climate and adds another nail in the coffin to the wonderful concept of "Freedom" that the US government now espouses. I would really like to know what Americans are actually free to do these days. It's a joke. With heartfelt sympathies, Michael |
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daniel1113 Veteran user 335 Posts |
This ban comes down to two issues: taxes and personal responsibility. That's all there is to it. Sad, but true.
Daniel M. Carrico
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silverking Inner circle 4574 Posts |
This law was not in response to cheating, poker-bots, or pressure from the Las Vegas and Atlantic City B&M casinos.
It's a long anticipated response to the fact that online gaming is essentially illegal in the US, and always has been. There are some questions as to how online poker fits into this scene, but it's not safe by any means. The Wire Act in the US prevents sports and general wagering online, and just where the line is drawn will take the courts to declare. Pokers claim to be a "game of skill" is what may get it handled seperately from other games. Many of the online poker sites made substantial changes to their software yesterday, and although claiming it has nothing to do with the new law, most players doubt that claim. Remember that although Poker itself may work online from a legal point of view, the US Government still goes after them for non-payment of taxes. This is almost as much of an issue for the government as the basic legality of online gaming itself. Although loopholes will likely be found, most of the online payment processors like FirePay and the Credit Card companies are preparing for the worst. Once you introduce doubt into the minds of betters as to whether they will be able to get their winnings out of the system, they'll start to fill the B&M's again. Once the payment processors are open to legal actions they'll stop the processing of payments into and out of the gambling sites. In the last few weeks, two senior executives of two offshore online gambling sites were arrested while transiting through American airports. This was widely viewed as meaning something serious, although it wasn't known that it would all happen this fast. Folks thought this Bill would die on the floor, and presumed it wouldn't be dealt with again until next year. They were very wrong. The B&M casinos, although not great fans of losing business offshore, have long been relatively supportive of online gaming for purposes of their own entry into the field if/when it became legitimate and legal in the USA. The ability of players to get their money safely into, and out of online gambling sites has been a major factor to the success of those sites. With the government removing this ability, whatever workarounds can be found will likely be full of security loopholes as well as general loopholes. Those security loopholes will scare away a great many of the current users of online gaming sites. It sucks, but online gaming changed for good a day ago, and probably won't ever be returning to what we've become used to over the last five years. How this will affect Canada and England in terms of their citizens use of online gaming sites remains to be seen. Most of the software deployments are either in Great Britan, Canada, the Carribean, or their territories, so there are many questions yet to be answered. The only positive note is that the overhead to run an online gaming site is quite low when taken along with the potential revenue. This means that the sites themselves may continue to function even with vastly reduced numbers of players, but which players and from which countries they'll be able to access the sites will take a while to figure out. |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16543 Posts |
Thanks.
It's going to be like prohibition from the roaring twenties only a different product this time. I think some one with brains will make fortunes from this situation.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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JasonEngland V.I.P. Las Vegas, NV 1729 Posts |
The US has had a love-hate relationship with all forms of gambling for two centuries. These latest laws are not the least bit surprising, though they are disappointing.
We are not allowed to wager pennies online, but we are encouraged? to participate in state-run lotteries in 38 of 50 states, bet on the stock market, and make wagers in the 15-billion dollar a year horseracing industry. I'm reminded of the old saying: "The gambling known as business looks with disfavor upon the business known as gambling." Jason
Eternal damnation awaits anyone who questions God's unconditional love. --Bill Hicks
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sodman12 Special user raleigh 601 Posts |
This is not going to change anything.
Most US banks and credit card companies already don't allow this. Everyone uses payment options like firepay, netteller. ect.
you can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all the time but never all of the people all the time.
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Danny Diamond Inner circle Connecticut 1400 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-10-03 15:41, sodman12 wrote: That is completely untrue. Some of the big sites are already turning away US players. I've been an online poker player for some time now, but I guess it's back to Foxwoods and their high rakes for me!!
You don't drown by falling in the water;
you drown by staying there. - Edwin Louis Cole |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16543 Posts |
Might be good news for home games and cardsharps. I am for it. I think that they should make all gambling illegal worldwide. Then we could have some fun again.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Danny Diamond Inner circle Connecticut 1400 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-10-03 16:12, tommy wrote: I am pretty sure that there was no one happier to hear of this ban, than my wife!
You don't drown by falling in the water;
you drown by staying there. - Edwin Louis Cole |
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LeeDillingham Loyal user Las Vegas 263 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-10-02 22:28, gump wrote: Vegas casinos have been pushing to make online casinos legal because they want to offer the service themselves. |
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sodman12 Special user raleigh 601 Posts |
You sure of this?
Im not trying to say you are wrong just that if you cant use credit cards then just use netteler or firpay. Then make a fake adress if you want to play. although masking an ip adress may prove to be more difficult. Quote: On 2006-10-03 16:00, Danny Diamond wrote:
you can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all the time but never all of the people all the time.
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16543 Posts |
Personally I hate on line poker it's akin to playing with the invisible man.
I have also lost a lot of players from the game I run because of on line poker. I would advise you guys in the USA to set up a home rake game now. I think you will find a lot of internet players there looking games shortly. You will also get a lot of ex internet suckers in casinos now. That's not to say they are all suckers but a lot are. I'm talking myself into comming over. I hope they do the same here in England. Also you want to be careful these on line casinos don't go bust and keep your money.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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sodman12 Special user raleigh 601 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-10-03 22:58, tommy wrote: Yes this has happened before. it gets bad for everyone
you can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all the time but never all of the people all the time.
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Danny Diamond Inner circle Connecticut 1400 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-10-03 22:58, tommy wrote: This is good advice - if you want to run an illegal game and risk being busted. ANY rake taken by the house, makes your game illegal.
You don't drown by falling in the water;
you drown by staying there. - Edwin Louis Cole |
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sodman12 Special user raleigh 601 Posts |
True but whens that last time you herd of a game getting busted? It happens but if your not near a city the risk is next to nothing.
I know of one games just few min. from where I live. If you want to play the internet is a great reasource to get players.
you can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all the time but never all of the people all the time.
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Danny Diamond Inner circle Connecticut 1400 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-10-03 16:00, Danny Diamond wrote: Quote:
On 2006-10-03 17:57, sodman12 wrote: Well, this is an official statement from PartyGaming (PartyPoker)... "After taking extensive legal advice, the Board of PartyGaming has concluded that the new legislation, if signed into law, will make it practically impossible to provide U. S. residents with access to its real money poker and other real money gaming sites. As a result of this development, the Board of PartyGaming has determined that if the President signs the Act (the Internet gaming bill is known as the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act of 2006) into law, the Company will suspend all real money gaming business with U. S. residents."
You don't drown by falling in the water;
you drown by staying there. - Edwin Louis Cole |
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