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pabloinus Inner circle 1681 Posts |
I found this video on Youtube.com, is Dai Vernon doing his routine of cups & balls
it is very nice. http://youtube.com/watch?v=9JXILIWELt8 Pablo |
walid ahumada Special user sinaloa, mexico 892 Posts |
Yes it is very nice, this come from Ammar videos. By the way this is (for me) the most original routine of the cups and balls, any thing else is just kind of a copy.
I wonder why Ammar has the rights to this video.
“Magic becomes art when it has nothing to hide.” BEN OKRI quote
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
This may have come from the Ammar videos. That's the most likely source. However, it may also be from a bootleg recording of Mark Wilson's Magic Circus.
If you have the Ammar DVDs, you could look at the credits at the end of the second DVD and you would see that Mark Wilson gave permission for Michael to use this footage. So, why did he give Michael permission to use this? If you know Michael Ammar, you know that he had a very close relationship with Vernon. So did Mark Wilson. Here is a chance for everyone to see one of Vernon's rare network appearances. And you really need to see more cups and balls routines. There are many that are not copies of the Vernon routine, although it is one of the best ones currently used as a foundation for the cups and balls.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
walid ahumada Special user sinaloa, mexico 892 Posts |
May be I should not use the word COPY, but a strong INFLUENCE, most routines (even mine) use over 50% of the moves.
“Magic becomes art when it has nothing to hide.” BEN OKRI quote
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Jim Wilder Special user Birmingham, AL 954 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-10-05 19:04, pintorama wrote: So are you implying that Vernon invented these moves? Your talk is often very loose even when translation is taken into account. There is no doubt that Vernon's collection of moves equate to a routine that is widely influential, but do your research and find where Vernon may have gathered a few ideas. There is nothing (completely) new under then sun. Furthermore... you should see more cup workers if you think that there are no other routines that aren't variations of Vernon's. |
Dave V Inner circle Las Vegas, NV 4824 Posts |
Jim's right. I believe Vernon was influenced by Max Malini's routine. He just scaled it down and moved the loads to his pockets. Maybe a better word would be "popularized" as it would be rather tough to argue with that. We can pretty much credit Vernon for bringing it back to the forefront and streamlining it for the modern performer.
There is a rich history to the Cups and Balls. It didn't start with Vernon, and it certainly didn't end with him.
No trees were killed in the making of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
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Mobius303 Inner circle Lakewood, Ohio 1309 Posts |
The best source for Vernon's routine and the story behind it is on Revelations #5 ...he talks about the How's and Why's of the routine.
The Wilson Video is priceless for seeing how Vernon interacted and performed the routine after so many years. There are several other videos out there with Vernon performing the routine none that are commercially available though. Later, Mobius |
Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
A lot of famous cups and balls routines are admittedly variations on Vernon. But there was a wealth of information about the cups and balls published before Vernon was even born.
Read Secrets of Conjuring and Magic by Robert-Houdin and Juegos de Manos by Minguet y Yrol.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
Jonton Veteran user New York City 336 Posts |
Bill...do you know where I can find this book? I checked amazon and ebay, but they didn't have anything. I've been interested in studying the old books, plus owning a collectors item at the same time.
Thanks... ~Jonathan
I Came, I Saw, I Conjured
www.jontaylornyc.com |
Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
First of all, don't rely on Google, Amazon and eBay to supply your old magic books. There is a book coming out soon that is the collected works of Robert-Houdin. Also, you can find the Robert-Houdin book at either Learned Pig or Lybrary.com as a download -- not as good, but better than nothing. You need to go to magicbookshop.com and ask them to find the book for you.
Also, you should phone Andy Greget. He is in Scottsdale AZ, as John A. Greget. He has no web site.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
Richard Evans Inner circle 1379 Posts |
Robert-Houdin's 'Secrets of Conjuring and Magic' is available as an e-book ($9.00) from http://www.lybrary.com. It won't be a collector's item, though
Bill is far better read than me - my reading list doesn't extend to Spanish. Try Googling 'Juegos de Manos' and see what you come up with. Richard [Oops - I see Bill just beat me to it]
I have six locks on my door all in a row. When I go out, I only lock every other one. I figure no matter how long somebody stands there picking the locks, they are always locking three. Elayne Boosler
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Chris Inner circle lybrary.com 1177 Posts |
You might also want to look into "The Dai Vernon Book of Magic" which has a section on Cups and Balls and is available as ebook http://www.lybrary.com/dai-vernon-m-147.html
Best, Chris....
Lybrary.com preserving magic one book at a time.
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Pete Biro 1933 - 2018 18558 Posts |
A separate book on cups and balls ala Vernon was published. Also, check the teach in Video from http://www.stevensmagic.com
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
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Pete McEwen Special user Durham, N.C. 576 Posts |
Was Vernon the first to really bring it to the tablehopping scene and that's why it moved to stand up? Is it the structure of the routine that made his famous and created so many copies? I personally like a 2 cup routine because I am a table hopper and it's just less to carry and more fun for me, less confusing. But I do know vernon's routine and that's my 3 cup routine if needed. I just think he was the first to popularize it doing it for everyone when he worked in the NY lounge.
Disclaimer: please feel free to correct my opinions, I have gotten a lot of information from studying cups and balls and I am making assumptions from David Ben's book as well. Just my two cents... Speed
The magician formerly known as SPEEDcuber
"no one will believe the things we do if we don't believe them ourselves." - Slydini PeteMcEwen@mac.com |
Tom G Inner circle 2895 Posts |
It's funny how many cup and ball routines are on tape/dvd and the performer starts the explanation with "this is based on Vernon's routine"....
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