Hey,
I posted this in the wrong forum sorry....
here is my question...
For the effect histed heisted Aronson explains in his book, bound to please, that you can use a prediction for S3..... I was wondering if anyone uses a prediction and how you bring it into the effect....
thanx in adavnace
greydon

I've never performed this effect, but I'm playing with it for a long time, and plan on performing it in the future.

What I would do is the following: As soon as S3 (or whichever spectator you would like to predict) raises his hand, I would get the right envelope and hand it to him to hold with the message that I have spomething special in mind for him or her. After I announced all the thought of cards I would continue with S3 and the prediction as the big finale.

Dennis Loomis (if'm not mistaken) also has a nice handling on his website for the prediction in Histed Heisted.

Simon,
Simon Aronson was absolutely right that the Original Louis Histed Effect lacked an ending. By having a prediction in an envelope, you have a different effect for the last selected card and the routine pays off nicely. However, I feel that there's a weakness. When you remove an envelope from a pocket, it's possible that a spectator will realize that you have many pockets, and that each one might contain a lot of envelopes. Since they do not know how the effect works, they will be thinking that you might have 52 envelopes. For that reason, I wanted to have the envelope on display from the beginning of the effect. (Or, even better, from the beginning of the show.)

Perhaps more importantly, I did not want the ending of the routine to be a spectator reading aloud a written prediction. That's because some spectators read well and speak up, but many do not.

And so, I wanted a method where the envelope is on display from the start, and it contains a duplicate card from another deck which I could display.

Given those requirements, most of you can probably come up with a method that works. I've devised two. As Simon Says... visit my web site to read my solutions.

My friend Nick Pudar has created the wonderful Stackview web site and as a part of that site he has a "musings" section. He has some good thoughts on Histed Heisted there, which come from his actual experience of having performed it many, many times. Just go to http://www.stackview.com and go to the musings area.

Dennis Loomis
P.S. You can find my website link below.

Hi Greydon,

Some great ideas here. I have done it a number of times--revealing the prediction exactly per Simon's instructions--and the reactions have been fantastic.

Cesar

I've performed this on several occasions, also just as described by Aronson.
I'm telling you, people will think you're the real deal when you do this effect.
And it'll fool the bejeezus out of other magicians.

Just adding my thoughts that this is one of my favorite routines to perform. It can play to huge crowds (rare for a card trick), and it will make some people believe you can really read minds. If you haven't performed this yet and you do know a memorized deck, you really do need to muster up the courage to give it a try. As Dennis Loomis kindly mentioned, I have a post in my blog about this effect that can help get you through your first performance.

Nick

Nick: how do you get to your blog? Is it through the "Musings" part of your site? If so, how does one enter?

Many thanks.

Gianni

Gianni,
At my website, http://www.stackview.com/musings.html there are instructions how to get the username and password to the site. Essentially, you need to send an email to musings@stackview.com, and you will receive the information from an autoresponder in less than ten minutes. The actual blog is then found at http://musings.stackview.com. The reason for the password process that is so easy to get around is to create the slightest bit of friction in order to prevent accidental access.
Nick

Nick has been most helpful - and gracious - to me in his response, especially since I now see that his site has clear instructions on how to gain access.

My apologies, and a Homer Simpsonesque D'OH!

Gianni

Gianni,
No problem at all, and thanks for the kind words. The reason for my "slight friction" in accessing the blog is to do my part in protecting the concept of a memorized deck. And also, since I have been posting my original memdeck effects, I thought that the small hurdle of asking for an email sent to me was not too much to ask for. I'd love to hear everyone's comments when you get a chance to read the blog posts.
Nick

(Please let me know if you feel this gets too revealing in any way and I will edit out my post text and link it to a new post in secret sessions)

I'm planning to perform Histed Heisted on Wednesday for an evening class of Spanish students. Ir is a mixed group of adults. This will actually be my very first card magic performance, (not counting two quick tricks I once tried on my mother and on two friends respectively). I may even be able to build it up in advance by "forcing" the classroom discussion into occult territory.

But I have to say that I feel that I question the entire envelope concept a little, no matter if the envelope is visible from the beginning or not. (An envelope visible throughout is the strongest of the two, of course). I feel that such a prearranged prediction half way ruins the illusion of the cards being fairly shuffled and handed out.

If this envelope revelation is to work, then the illusion must be pulled off that this is a second psychic power you possess; not only to read their minds then and there in order to see what cards they are thinking of, but also the ability to have known this in advance.

Ok, so one might argue that this makes you twice as brilliant and that the effect becomes twice as impossible. But I feel that this leap of a prediction may not be easily taken by the spectator. I fear that the presence of something you prepared in advance will signal that the trick was setup in advance.

If you at the start of the trick took an empty envelope and a blank card and then wrote something (or appeared to do so) and sealed it on the other hand... that would make it all happen inside this one time frame and setting. So this is what I ideally would like to do.

Another thing I am not completely happy with regarding the envelopes is the singling out of one person. This may not be a good idea for my particular crowd. Why do I have something special planned for that one woman? Am I trying to attract her? Will a man getting the envelope have fits of homophobia and worry as a result of it? Nobody really knows each other well here but we have spent a good many hours together over the past months.

I could single out the teacher of course, which will seem the most logical choice. But still something that could potentially be interpreted as something. Trying to impress him or something like that. I am not at all secure about the envelopes.

But if one were to write down and seal in a prediction at the start of the performance, it could be part of the initial explanation/instructions that you have a feeling about this one word or symbol you have in your mind, like an annoying song that plays over and over, but that you don't know what it means yet. The word could later be revealed as a scribble which only makes sense once you know that it's supposed to be say... an 8 of Spades.

Maybe it can be so vague as to ambiguously resemble both a 5C and an JC or something and they would read whatever fits into it.

I could also plant something in the classroom instead of using envelopes. I do have one chance to get in there two nights in advance. But I will not be alone in there at any time. I mean... if it was written in the corner of the blackboard the entire time as a scribble that nobody could decode unless you pointed and said "look.. it says 8 and there is a drawing of a Spades symbol! That wasn't there before", it would be a good effect.

Eerie and unexpected is good.

Noobini,
I have performed this routine many time, and there has never been a awkward moment in trying to reconcile the prediction finish. I never try to single out anyone special. I am more concerned about room management so that I know the relative positions of each of the participants so that I don't have to count people later. I like your idea of containing the entire effect in the one short time frame by writing a prediction on a blank card, and keep the envelope in sight. Of course, I would then use Dennis Loomis' excellent idea that he has shared on his website. I'd have to think about that a bit more though -- it clearly makes the prediction less of a surprise, since you are telling them exactly how the big finish will occur. You have asked a lot of good questions, and I will think about them longer. However, I would not be concerned about the "setup" aspect of the prediction. It has always beena very strong finisher for me. I wish you the best in your performance. Please let us know how it went.

Nick

Yes, I have no doubt that the effect is more than strong enough as it is. Just thinking out loud really to see what I could possibly do differently in order to tweak the effect a little.

And you are right about how writing something on a mysterious piece of paper in advance will announce that something is going to be predicted. I didn't think of that difference. Of course, placing a pre-sealed envelope out in the open from the get go also announces that something will be revealed later.

I too will think more on this. I think it should be possible to turn it around somehow and make a prediction before their eyes without them necessarily understanding until the end that it is a prediction of what card they are thinking of.

Would be good to somehow plant a prediction on them and then switch it or something. To take the end revelation to their side of the table. There has to be many ways already tried that (appears to) bring a revelation to the spectator.

Regarding room management, this is one of the reasons why this effect will be so easily controllable in this situation since we are all sitting around one big table. There are three chairs on each long side and one on each short side. The teacher has the big chair on one short side. One seat is often empty because someone didn't show up. I can deal clockwise or counter clockwise from me in either direction and either pick the closest or the last person from me to be a "referee" who will shuffle up the collected cards before handling them to me. I can pick any seat I want if I arrive early and plan whatever revelation I wish for the one constant person/element, which is the teacher.

Thanks for the input, Nick! I will report back how it all turned out.

I don't recall that I have done Histed Heisted as a single effect. In that case, having the envelope on display in advance might suggest something. But I really don't think the audience is going to be bothered by it. After all, the person whose card is predicted in the envelope merely thought of a card. Another thing you might do is to use a nail writer. The envelope is hanging in full view, but there is a small window in the back which allows you to write the card's name on the folded card inside. In Corinda you'll find the instruction for how to fold the inner card so that it seems the writing was inaccessible.

Good luck on your show. Your seating situation is advantageous. If you are on top of your memdeck, the hardest thing about Histed Heisted may be keeping track of which spectator is which number. I've left it out of a show a couple of times because the seating was so haphazard that I was fearful that I was going to get messed up.

Dennis Loomis

Yes, I think that I am sufficiently on top of my memdeck at this point. Hope so. I always found going from stack number to face in my mind a bit of a slower process than going from face to stack number, although I have practiced them both for the same amount of time. It seems to me that the majority of memorized deck effects needs you to go from a mentioned index to a stack number and not the other way around, so Histed is a bit different in that respect. I also find that if I don't concentrate when setting up the stack I drift into putting them in regular stack order.

But for someone with my level of performance nerves, I think that this is probably the easiest thing I can do. What is really difficult is things that require steady hands and smooth misdirecting moves.

It's great that you mention Corinda. I have actually just unpacked 13 Steps from it's shipping box a few days ago. I plan to save it for a long journey in November but I couldn't help reading the first few pages and this is the first time I have heard of a nail writer. Your idea to use such an instrument in this context is very interesting!

There are many excellent effects which use both a memdeck and a nail writer. Read my variation of Harry Anderson's Yard Sale Deck on my website for one such.

It takes a lot of work to get really good with a nail writer so that you can write long words or even sentences. But for many card effects, all you need to write is two characters like: 4H or QS. You prewrite most of the message, just leaving space to fill in the vital info.

Dennis Loomis

Another possible ending that could be good is to use a duplicate card so that it is believable that the enveloped card is the very same card they thought of earlier. This I think would justify that the (single) envelope isn't produced until a little into the routine or at the end. Because it is no longer a prediction but a card to... type effect.

While spectator 3 is opening the (ordinary) envelope himself, you palm out the original card that you culled to the top while pretending to read out card values. Now the deck is examinable for duplicates. In any case, sine you have to add the card from the envelope to the deck in order to continue with other effects, it seems given that there are no extras in there. Hence it is the same card.



Well, as with all my prior attempts at performing, things were heading towards certain disaster. The last hour before I left home I had to lie down because I was suddenly so overcome with nerves that I almost fainted. The room was going dark.

Anyway, I never got the chance to perform. The loud flamboyant Spanish teacher was very eager to his own trick, which he did extremely well. He vanished a coin and then pulled it out of a pretty woman's ear. She blushed. Everyone else were silent. I was too. I had no idea where that coin went to. I have never seen a coin vanish outside of video. It was very magical.

By then I knew anyway that my little number was hopelessly long and intricate for this venue. People pay good money to learn Spanish. They don't want to lose classroom time to some show.

I could have forced myself on the class and done something shorter like an AC routine or Twisting The Aces. The teacher would have loved it at least. Well... in theory. Again I realized as I was sitting there that I cannot perform magic with any kind of professional air, except to myself. So be it.

I don't think I will try anything again in this kind of setting. I am not a show man. I am a quiet mumbling neurotic. So amazing to see how someone else can make a coin from ear into a real act, whereas I couldn't "sell" the world's most impossible trick. Even if the setting had been right for it.

Noobini, here is what I do: in my first call I call # 3 and (!) 13, in the second call # 23 and 33, and in my third call # 43 and 52. At one point spectator # 3 will react, I start a fishing to get his card, but apparently give up, in fact knowing his card. I hand then an (the correct) envelope to him for safe keeping. This envelope states on the address side the words: "I knew I will have problems with you!" I continue my routine, at the end nobody will remember when I handed out the envelope. So at the very end I come back to the spectator "creating problems". I ask him to name the card his is thinking of,then to open the envelope. Inside he finds the written message, that it was difficult or impossible to read his mind, but that I had a precognition that he will think of.... Believe me, I've done this very often it is extremely strong. Jan

Noobini,
I appreciate your candid assessment of your thought process and ultimate nerves in performing this routine. Truth be told, I also was too nervous to actually do this routine the first five times I had intended on performing it. Eventually, my nerves settled down on the sixth attempt, and fortunately for me, it had a powerful effect on my audience. It is now one of my favorite effects to perform when the setting is right (large group, ample time, expectations of a miracle, etc.) Don't give up!
Nick

Thank you for the support Nick! I won't give up magic quite yet. But I have to realize at some point that I simply don't cut it as an entertainer. I'm sure that I'll be able to perform for close friends (eventually) but not much more. It is a source of great bitterness to me, the things I know I do well but cannot do in real everyday life.

Anyway, in this case it was a good thing that I didn't get to do anything in any case because it would have wasted their time and been awkward for everyone.

JanForster, I'm afraid I don't quite understand your system for calling out the cards that way. How you know which one of two possibilities is the right one, unless you actually do get something from the fishing, such as black vs. red in round one and lower card vs. court card in round two?

Also, when you read out round two, you have to remember to skip 13 then since you have already done that one? I am not sure what you are gaining this way? It takes equally long all in all, doesn't it?

But the idea of the note after an apparent failure I do understand. Very interesting approach!