Sincerity and the ability to be a good method actor is what is really needed to be a successful mentalist. All the rest just helps to add to the "tools" you have at your disposal to do a good job.
PSIncerely Yours,
Paul Alberstat

Johnny,
Go back to magic and crawl before you walk. Otherwise you are going to fall flat on your face.
best regards,
Tony Razzano

Maybe we should have been suspicious of this guy from the first when he talked about this "Neil Writer" character. I've never heard about this Neil guy.
Seriously though while maybe we don't want to help someone not informed enough to know what a pendulum is, the replies given will probably also be read by and help some other, more worthy, beginning mentalists!

Stevehk, LOL, Neil Writer!

Banachek, cant agree more.

Espmagic, oh come on, I can pull a card out of anywhere with a sleight, this makes magic and mentalism meld. I find working the streets and bars of Chicago, you need some sleights. I have a heck of a think-a-card routine, actually two. Some basic card sleights are a must, and I blow everyone away (taught in part to me by Chris Ivanovich, http://www.blacklagoon.org , have to give credit where credit is do).

Hows this for mentalism? You show 52 cards to a spectator (Some times less do to card giveaways) and he glances at one. You instantaniously know what card is his! Or vernons think-a-card where you use a few more sleights. Both are excellent!

Also, would you detest the use of spoons? I find mentalism and spoon bending HAVE to go hand in hand now, everybody says well if you can read my mind, use your powers and bend this.

I find using gaffs just allows for more slip ups. Give me my brain, and I have all I need! Its taken me a LONG time to come to this, but its the new persona!

(Ok guys, you wanna take it or do I have to honour? )

Ok Zodiac - do yo actually think your participants think you accomplish your feats with powers of your mind? Or, what do you more specifically claim in your presentations?

Think about it.

/Matias

Honor? Oh allow me the pleasure sir, seems as if you question my mentalism. For that I must object and allow you to peer into my mind and motives, as your mentalism and couth seems to be lacking.

Lets disect my routine shall we ( I wont bore you with too many details ). I have a routine that allows people to select a card using only THOUGHT (This of course being the key to a GREAT mentalism effect, the spectators thought). I use my mind reading, and some cold reading skills, you know phrases about warmth of cards, money issues, health issues, and slowly their amazed that I know their card. They don't have to acknowledge my cold reading, they just are amazed by the fact that I know its a heart, ie. cause their very loving and close to their family. The killer is that their card is in their hand the whole time Im performing the reading. I place it there, look into their eyes and start revealing facts about them, and this is how it seems as if I have peered into their souls/minds. How? I never say I'm psychic. I am simply an entertainer who has developed some unique talents that most people inherintly ignore, which is 100% the truth. I use a form of intuition.

Another example of my magic with sleights and cards:
Now I have to admit "out of this world" is a CARD TRICK! But when the spectator focuses, and uses inution to accomplish the Out of this World Effect (by Mr. Paul Curry), it becomes more then a trick, it is magic, and more then that, its MENTALISM! Why, because it happens in their mind. I couldn't have been switching anything or setting up anything, I must have some special abilities or maybe, there maybe some magic left in this world......

Hypnosis? A great tool in the arsenal, that also could explain or at least raise questions as to my abilities.

I believe the basis of mentalism is MAGIC, and the basis of MAGIC is mystery. I am a magi, a fortune teller, a sort of magician but more then that, my magic happens in the mind (Never do I pull a rabbit from anywhere)!

Sleights and cards are a simple tool to a Grander Mystery! If we truely are dealing with the theatre of the mind, then why use tricked cards, and the such. Use thine mind!

Think about it. Sorry for running on, but I felt like I was being attacked, and I love a good discussion.

Matias,

I do a great Hippy Hop rabbits done with a teleporting theme. The audience just talks about it all the time. They are now hooked on time travel...

This also reminders me of a WEERD Weekend in Scottsdale many years ago... The same one as the sky clad pool ritual... I am still looking fo a video tape of my XXX rated zig zag balloon...

All in good fun or not...

Dr. Zodiac,

I agree that mentalism is another branch of a general category called "magic." Many mentalists find that term anathema, however, and it is not currently "politically correct" among mentalists to use the term, it seems.

However, I will be politically incorrect for a moment. There is an important distinction between mentalism and other branches of magic. The distinction is that mental "effects" appear to happen because of some praeternatural power of the entertainer or some interaction between the performer and the spectator. Other forms of magic no longer even pretend that they are anything other than skill. I mean, if I do a card trick, no one believes, nor do I even suggest, that anything other than skill is involved. If I perform the cups and balls, no one really believes that I can dematerialize the balls and re-materialize them under a different cup. There is, nonetheless, a sense of mystery. With "magic" the mystery happens because the specatator "suspends his disbelief" whereas in mentalism, the mystery happens because the spectator actually believes (or at least is inclined to believe... or at VERY least, is open to the possibility...). The result in both cases should be a sense of mystery and entertainment, of course, but the source and nature of the reaction is quite different.

This distinction between mentalism and other forms of magic is important. It is also the basis for most of the discussion about the ethics of performing mental routines.

As for me, I am not offended by describing mentalism as magic in forums of other performers. However, in public, it will probably make your presentation of mentalism more mysterious if you remove any possible connection in the spectator's mind to sleight of hand. Many purists, for example, cringe even at the introduction of a deck of cards in a mental routine because cards have been so strongly associated with sleight of hand.

This debate rages on and on, and you will find many, on both sides of the issue, are quite adamant about it. I don't think you were attacked. You just got a mild dose of the passion felt by some...

First, please notice the " " symbol next to the "honour" bit. I was merely indicating that someone probably would "react" to what you said, and that it might just as well be me. Don't read to much into it.

Anyhow, regarding your card reading routine. I like it - it actually sounds very good. I particularly like that, as you point out, they are holding the card all the time and I assume they don't get to turn it over until you're done.

But in general it was more a "reaction" to what ESPmagic commented on, namely your advice to;

I just sounds like a somewhat odd remark from a mentalist. It was also considering some other posts you've made where it appears like what you do would be perceived as magic, not mentalism. This is why I asked what you claim in your presentations.



RileyG; I bet your rabbits and balloons make people talk (as you say). But what do they see as the source of your powers? IMHO mentalism requires for the spectators to believe that there is more than sleight-of-hand. Otherwise we may just as well simply refer to it as (regular) magic, not mentalism, or possibly mental magic.


/Matias

Gosh, Matias! We had nearly simultaneous posts with similar thoughts! Darn, we're good! Separated by thousands of miles, and never having met personally, we "sensed" each other's thoughts.

I think, though, that RileyG. was being facetious.

Happy New Year!

Mr Clarkson, good post! I think you are right.

I think we all understand the importance of learning a few slights. Heck, I sleeve in my show and sometimes use a double. I think where some took offence of zociacs post
"Espmagic, oh come on, I can pull a card out of anywhere with a sleight, this makes magic and mentalism meld."

I think those were probably badly chosen words by Zodiac and seemd to trivilize mentalism as apposed to magic. But we have all chosen bad words from time to time. I know I have, it is often hard to get what you really mean in context in a few words on this type of fourm.

I agree to a point that most magic tricks can be made to look psychic in nature, it depends upon the presentation. Obviously Zodiac likes to present his magic that way. Myabe I should not say obviously for the exact reasons I stated in the last paragraph

I am still more concerened about Jonny's post and I think that is what made us all a little edgy over magic comparisions.

I'm going back to mind-reading balloon animals!
PSIncerely Yours,
Paul Alberstat

Matias, and Clarkson, you gentlemen must be psychic, thousands of miles and such.

OK here's my question to you:
Do you really tell your audience you have psychic abilities and have some secret ability?

Slights and General Magic are the basis of Mentalism, aren't they?

If not, then why are you at "The Magic Café?" I create new routines, and illusions often, I pick up Houdin's books and/or Corinda and learn about the basic fundamental principals to make the illusions.

A billet tear, and the peek involved with it,is it not a selight? Loading a watch box with a predicition through some secret means, is that not also magic/and fundamentally a sleight? BLINDFOLD driving, it is not using psychic powers, and often uses moves to "help restore vision" (Sorry trying to keep the secrets here).

Since I do not have a stage to perform, I need to use everyday items, spoons, cards, pads of paper, markers, etc. The seance, and the streets are my venue, and most of what I need is at hand. I do not find cards cheapen mentalism at all, when presented right.

So if I offended, I am sorry. As others have pointed out, it was not my intention. I still see mentalism as a form of magic, because we use some of the same moves (Not all) , secret knowledge, and in the end we cause that magical feeling of amazement inside of our clients.

No, believe it or not, Riley actually wasn't being facetious. His bizarre version of Hippity Hop Rabbits was an affair to remember.

Best thoughts,
John Smetana

Yes, and no. That's like saying that cabinet making and rough carpentry are the same. They use the same basic materials, tools, and techniques, but it's the rare cabinet maker who regularly builds a house, and most contractors who build houses aren't quite so good at the fine carpentry involved in truly high quality cabinet making.

I doubt many cabinet makers would take well to the suggestion that they're no different than the guy building your house (and, FWIW to make the comparison complete, many carpenters I know who build houses are convinced they can build great cabinets, too, but fall short when it comes to the fine details that make the difference between a big box with a door and a beautiful cabinet).

Well... that's why we're here, no?


It's not what you say per se, but what conclusions they draw. Obviously these are to a large extent affected by what you say, what you do, what props you use, what context you're performing in, what they think of you, and on and on.

And yes, my personal presentations definitely suggest the power I claim. (At large they don't happen to be 'paranormal', even if that occasionally is an easier explanation than what I do claim, which is more of the psychological type.)


To some extent but you're definitely missing out a lot if you think those are the basis. Someone mentioned psychology which has a much greater role in mentalism than magic normally. Also, it is problematic to say that General Magic is the basis because, while some of the methods may be shared, General Magic per se isn't a method. It's an application of the methods, and as such it is not a part of mentalism. Of course there are no rules written in stone on this. These are simply 'interpretations' that I belive many in mentalism agree with.

Compare the statement "Sleights and General Magic is the basis for Mentalism" with perhaps "Flour and Spaghetti is the basis of Lasanga". Well...


Huh?... We are trying to discuss mentalism just as the Forum says. (But FYI many prefer to not discuss here!)
Also, in my own personal opinion, it is a bit to make sure that the mentalism isn't too confused with flour and spaghetti


What I for one feel is a bit contorted with this is that it appears like your focus is on the props, as is the normal case in regular magic. Most - but not all - mentalists try to avoid props, or at least make them seem secondary because it is mentalism.


You don't have to apologise for offending anyone because you haven't. And I hope neither have I, as that is not my intention (why would it be?) I just think that one can make the impact of what is performed more powerful with another mindset than the magician's one.


/Matias

Flour and spaghetti? Oh, come now, you knew what I meant. Of course sleights and General Magic aren't all there is to mentalism, otherwise there would be no difference. That was a very lame point to bring up, about psychology. I never said psychology wasn't a factor. I was just stating that sleights and some magic generalities, are a part of mentalism's basis. Maybe not EVERYTHING, but a part of it.

As for spoons cards etc, they are a means to create an effect, obviously! Must I walk you through everything I say?

DO you REALLY believe your audience thinks YOU have some super powers? Then you must think your audience are simple, and as such naive morons.

As for cabinet makers, they have to have the tools and some skills of the carpenter, you can't make a cabinet with a kazoo or banjo can you? So, yes, the builder of houses, and the cabinet maker, are both carpenters to begin with! True there are different sects, that develop different skills, but they are all carpenters at their root levels, all know how to miter and hammer wood!

Just my thoughts, if you couldn't read them!

Not as talked about as the xXx rated zig zag balloon... Docc gave myself, Brother Shadow, and Mark Edward some magic tricks some 15 to 20 minutes before show time and asked us to improvise the tricks in a WEERD Weekend way... The crowd got more than they bargained for with us three...grin

The flour and spaghetti and lasanga analogy is referring to the "levels" of relatedness. Compare it to tools and different applications.

Anyhow (and I'm beginning to get tired of the question) if someone only treats mentalism as a presentational angle for some of his tricks, then I think there is a great risk that the overall impact is weaker than it could be.


Regarding the audience being "naive morons for believing"; are scientists who believe in the paranormal naive morons? Are people who fall for card cheating morons? Are you a naive moron for believing some of the things you do that actually are false?

I don't think so.

And besides, as one later finds out, there are many aspects in mentalism that are real.

The main element that potentially separates magic from mere theater is the element of belief. (Unfortunately this element is often gone in regular magic).

(Note "mere theater" is not saying theater is bad. It's just not as potentially powerful as e.g mentalism can be).


/Matias