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Alex Linian Inner circle Peru 1277 Posts |
Not what I asked. (lord of the horses, your response was actually the best one)
I'm not asking about history. Not asking a magician or a muggle. The people who say magic and mentalism can't be mixed: What is mentalism and how is it different from magic?
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Jared Brandon Kopf, Magic Magazine PUNCTURE 2.0 - "Jaw-dropping amazing... You also get the absolute best teaching DVD I have ever seen" - Genii Magazine SLEIGHT OF HAND that looks like Magic. --- Alex Linian | Instagram |
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magic in mind Special user 851 Posts |
I never once said mentalism and magic carnt be mixed.read my post below carlos the great.mentalism is the last believable aspect derived from magic.you carnt saw a woman in half but maybe just maybe ..... mentalism is for real. after all the world is built upon belief.
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Alex Linian Inner circle Peru 1277 Posts |
So what is mentalism?
Check out SKYCAP from Paul Harris Presents!- "A fine trick from the dynamic foursome..."
Jared Brandon Kopf, Magic Magazine PUNCTURE 2.0 - "Jaw-dropping amazing... You also get the absolute best teaching DVD I have ever seen" - Genii Magazine SLEIGHT OF HAND that looks like Magic. --- Alex Linian | Instagram |
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sebbyg Regular user Cherry Hill, NJ 119 Posts |
You can mix traditional Magic and Mentalism, and it could be very entertaining. However, at the end of the day you will be thought of as a Magician.
If you want to build a reputation of being purely a Mentalist, you can’t mix your mental feats with traditional magic effects. If you do, at the end of the day you will be thought of as a Magician. |
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magic in mind Special user 851 Posts |
I think your pulling my leg.you nearly had me going for a minute.
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Cameron Francis V.I.P. 7025 Posts |
Mariagi, first, thanks for the clarification. You backed up your argument very well.
Second, even if there are some people do know the difference, what does it matter? If it's being done well, no one is going to question a magician doing mentalism or a mentalist doing magic. I just don't understand why mentalists get so worked up over it. There are all kinds of mentalism out there of different styles and shades. Magic or mentalism, it's all theatre. Traditional plays mix genres all the time. Why can't various branches of magic? And BTW, neither I, nor anyone here, said a reading and an ambitious card routine should be in the same set. That would be a bit stupid. But readings are only one form of mentalism. And an ambitious card routine is only one form of magic. What makes this whole argument even funnier is that we're have it on the Magic Café: Magcicians Helping Magicians.
MOMENT'S NOTICE LIVE 3 - Six impromptu card tricks! Out now! http://cameronfrancismagic.com/moments-notice-live-3.html
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Jim Reynolds Elite user Special Guest 431 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-10-10 20:53, Alex Linian wrote: To steal a spectator observation from Stuart Cumberland(?): "How did you do that!?" = magician "How did you know that?" = mentalist I suspect many magicians who do mentalism in their magic act get the former response. |
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Wolflock Inner circle South Africa 2257 Posts |
OK. No more magicians allowed to do thumb tie's, Siberian Chain cuffs or any other forms of Escapes or bindings. No more Mentalists and spiritualists allowed to do a rope tie or binding of ANY kind in a spirit cabinet. That is Escapology. David Copperfield? No more Dancers in your show! They are not Magicians. No more nail writers, billets, TT's, etc. to be used by mentalists. Those are magic props. No more bending of cutlery as that is sleight of hand. Hell, no more talking. That is an MC's work.
I am personally shocked at some of these posts from the "elite" performers. I am a MAGICIAN! As mentioned above, No one shouts trick locks when I do Escapology. Anyone want to try stop me doing Mentalism. Go ahead and try! Regards Wolflock
Wolflock
Pro Magician & Escapologist Member of JMC (Johannesburg Magic Circle) South Africa |
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erlandish Inner circle Vancouver, Canada 1254 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-10-11 01:19, Jim Reynolds wrote: That's a great insight. I think, because of the fact that magic is often thought of as involving items separate from the magician (always needing cards, coins, ropes, some sort of object), whereas mentalism for the most part rests solely in the mind (how can a piece of paper that gets torn up be magical?). |
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darkseance Loyal user UK 241 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-10-10 20:28, Lord Of The Horses wrote: yeah but your bought them from me i need your address, the something is ready! |
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Wolflock Inner circle South Africa 2257 Posts |
Why do you need paper and why tear it up. Why not just read the mind without paper?
Wolflock
Pro Magician & Escapologist Member of JMC (Johannesburg Magic Circle) South Africa |
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Malchat Special user The Kingdom of Croiset and Wonder 885 Posts |
Quote:
"How did you do that!?" = magician That reminds me of a Richard Busch quote: "'If' is profound mystery, for adults. 'How' is weak mystery, for children." I think the main difference between -most- magic and -most- mentalism is the plot line of the effects... The classic plot of most magic tricks, whether it's a coins across or a dove production is something like: 'Behold, I will it, and make it so.' The classic plot of most mentalism is: 'You think it, I reveal it.' The audience reaction to good magic is 'I witnessed something miraculous', the audience reaction to good mentalism is 'I connected with something miraculous.' Generally mentalism requires a little more involvement from the spectator. Even the best 'in their hands' magic effect doesn't require much involvement from the spectator other than holding on to a prop. But... the above is a useful rule of thumb to me, not an absolute. Metal bending is basically the archetypical magic plot. Derren Brown has some beautiful ideas in 'Absolute Magic' how you can make something as simple as a floating ring trick emotionally connect with a specator. The difference between magic and mentalism doesn't seem to be the props or lack of props (I've seen mentalists carry around briefcases with more stuff than some close-up artists I know) or the supposed 'realism' of mentalism (even mentalists who outright admit to using trickery still get people believing they are psychics.) Allowing a few exceptions, the key thing that separates mentalism from magic IMHO is the plotline and the way the audience experiences it: 'You think it, I reveal it, and together we make a miracle.'
“You are what you pretend to be.”
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Steve Dela Special user U.K. London 961 Posts |
Man this is interesting.
ok so my opinion is that they can be mixed and I do most of the time. I now have a fully mental show which is fun, but hey there is nothing wrong with being a mind reader that also does magic. I couldn't care less as I work and know what works. Do I get repeat bookings? yep! do people ever say... but hang on you did a bit of magic there that's not right as you read minds! ummmm... NO! The distinction between the two helps in marketing... not in performance. Steve Dela http://www.stevedela.co.uk |
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Wolflock Inner circle South Africa 2257 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-10-11 06:16, Steve Dela wrote: Well put Steve. I like that way of thinking. Regards Wolflock
Wolflock
Pro Magician & Escapologist Member of JMC (Johannesburg Magic Circle) South Africa |
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Mesaboogie Special user 804 Posts |
Only the performers in this thread who regularly perform to the laity know if it works or not.
I have performed magic and mentalism for years now. I usually, but not always, start of with some simple magic using cards to get interest them move on. In fact my opening script is along the lines of "I'm a psychological magician, that is, I do magic, but I also play psychological mind games. Let me start with a couple of magic tricks to draw you in, then we'll try something different that you've probably never seen before" I then perform a few card tricks which involves them and whereby the magic is invisible...that is, I do no flourishes...for me, this would simply say "Hey, watch me, I'm cool" - not the impression I want. I want them to think "This guy is doing some really amazing things, I can't wait to see the mind stuff". The magic is quick and establishes me as a skilled entertainer. There are laughs and people let down their guard. You want them to feel comfortable and get to know you. I then go into the mentalism. Do they believe that I have psycholgical skills and can read their minds? - absolutely, because the performance is believable enough for there to be no other explanation. Also the shift from laughter and visual trickery to a sudden name revelation or PK touches effect is so dramatic it leaves them speechless. That said, it all depends on the situation and the people you are working with. I sometimes stop after one mental effect because I can see that they can't latch on to the seriousness nature of the effects....conversely, sometimes I will do JUST mentalism. It really depends on the people. BUT IT DOES WORK. Another thing, being skilled at both allows me to be flexible..it can sometimes be very hard doing mentalism in a very loud club environment so I will resort to doing visual tricks. We are entertainers. And I disagree with a statement earlier, stating that mentalists will only be called magicians if we do magic in our act...I believe that mentalists are always called magicians regardless of your reportiore - since this is the name that the public know as someone who does weird and wonderful things. Andrew |
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icentertainment Inner circle 1429 Posts |
Could we please make a list of the different types of mentalists out there
Their name and a brief (2 sentence of the style they do) Uri Gellar, Kreskin etc and lets see if magic and mentalism does in fact work |
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Matt Malinas Inner circle Transylvania 1367 Posts |
With thought and consideration a magician should be able to incorporate mentalism effects into his act without them beeing dicredited.
it is true, it does not suit everyone's style but it can be done and it is beeing done. myself included. -Matt p.s. jealousy comes to mind but I won't explain. I think it is enough said
The masters make the rules, for the wise men and the fools
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Colin Inner circle Las Vegas 1355 Posts |
I have seen my good friend Drew Mcadam performing the Sponge magic rabbits one minute (I'm not sure what exactly that is, however he says he always gets a cheap smile from it when they see all the baby bunnies?) and then going straight on to a headline prediction. Professional suicide if you ask me!
However, many mentalists do use cards, but they present them as mind reading not a find a card trick. I think there is a difference, but it's all in the presentation. Col. PS: Drew... I could have told them about that ruddy rope trick!
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davybabybrazil Regular user Rio de Janeiro, Brazil 169 Posts |
The question is not whether or not it works...just about anything works. You can put on a clown suit, juggle, read minds, do magic and do backward flips in the air. Hey it may be entertaining BUT does it lessen and dilute our beloved art of mentalism. I believe it does.
My example of course is an extreme but it holds true for magician also. I am sure it is very entertaining to watch magic and mentalism together but it does weaken our art. Entertainment is achieved for many people by the experience of real magic and all we have left that may be real is mentalism. It is the last frontier in many aspects and I think we have an obligation to protect it.
It is hard to believe a man is telling you the truth if you know that if you were in his situation you would be lying.
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Steve Suss Inner circle 1193 Posts |
What was T.A.Waters thinking when he wrote "Mind, Myth and Magic". Probably that it is a myth that you can't mix magic and mentalism.
During the short time we spend with the audience we try to suspend their disbelief as well as entertain. Some of us do this with magic, some with mentalism and some with both. I consider myself an actor who has magical powers. These include both physical and mental. I see nothing wrong with mixing up effects to exhibit these powers. The bottom line is I want to perform the most entertaining show I can. I want my audience to have that sense of wonder and mystery that we all love so dearly. The real secret is not the type of effects but is the performer himself. If a magician can not perform a mental effect correctly, usually the audience will let him know soon enough and the effect will probably be dropped from his program. If the effect enhances his act it certainly will stay. Over a period of time you weed out what does not work and eventually come up with your perfect act. For some this includes both magic and mentalism. |
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