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NJJ Inner circle 6437 Posts |
I am a good vent, I skill struggle with my labials but I can certainly pull it off. However, as a magician by trade, I have the fear of getting caught.
The fear of kid's yelling "I can see your lips moves" or "Your talking! Not the puppet!" How do you minimise this during a show? How do you deal with heckles? |
mdspark Special user 784 Posts |
"Of course he's makin me talk...you didn't think I was real did ya?!!!"
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kimmo Inner circle Sheffield 1193 Posts |
It very rarely happens. Most kids are well aware how puppets work and are quite willing to go along with it if your material is funny. I never deny that I am a ventriloquist - my opening routine is with Axtell's book puppet. I always start by saying 'Has anyone ever seen an enchanted, talking book before?' Whatever the reply I add, 'well you're not going to see one now - it's me doing it!!'
I work for all age groups and I can honestly say that in thousands of performances I have hardly had any children call me on the technical side of things - they are usually too busy talking to or arguing with the puppet! Take a look at my video on youtube (link below). This was filmed at a youth club for children aged 6 to 16. The PA system broke down so I had to shout, which is never good for lip control. If you listen to the shouts from the audience they are all heckling the puppet as though he was a real person, which I suppose is the illusion we are going for. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ME6ciYXq8H0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5yj61-9ehQ I remember feeling really self conscious when I started doing vent - far more so than when performing magic - nowadays I feel a real sense of relief when Charlie comes out because I no longer have to carry the show on my own!! Having said all this there was one occasion (Isn't there always!!) where a little girl just would not let go and kept shouting 'it's a puppet', 'you're talking' , and 'your hand's in the back' to the point where it was ruining the show. On that occasion as a last resort I actually took my hand out of Charlie and laid him flat on the box, turned to the girl and said 'well done, it is a puppet. We all know that. There are no real boys made out of rubber. Shall I leave him like this or shall we carry on??' I said it in a really jokey manner with a big smile on my face, paused for a second and then put Charlie back on, who turned to me and said 'Don't you ever do that again!!!' It got a big laugh from everyone, including the heckling girl and we made it to the end of the routine. I must stress again though - it hardly ever happens!
VISIT MY ONLINE STORE!: www.kimmomagicshop.com
NEW LECTURE NOTES - SHOW US YOUR TRIX NOW AVAILABLE AS AN INSTANT DIGITAL DOWNLOAD! Kimmo DVD available Now! Watch the promo here! Order your copy NOW! CLICK HERE! ENTERTAINER,MAGICIAN AND VENTRILOQUIST'S BLOG - DON'T READ THIS... |
Billy Bo Special user 627 Posts |
That's the best 'out' I have ever heard
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Wanlu Inner circle Manila, Philippines 3058 Posts |
Hey that sounds great Kimmo and mdspark. I learn new things today. Thanks guys!!!
In my case, I started adding puppets in my magic show just barely two months ago...I'M SUPER WORRIED ABOUT KIDS SAYING "Your lips move" or "you're the one talking" ...as suggested by some Magic Café and KIDabra friends...I start the vent part of the Magic show (where I usually do a very short act with two animal puppets from Ax, the Vent mask then a hard figure) by saying...Before I show you my puppet friends, do you know who's controlling a puppet?...and the kids shout...it's YOU!!! Oh yes it's me using my hand and fingers and I demo with the hand first without the puppet...AND do you know who's doing the voice of the puppet...and again they shout...it's YOU!!!...that's right children I'm doing the voice of the puppet too but PLEASE DON'T TELL HIM BECAUSE THAT MAY HURT HIS FEELINGS. That lessens the possibility of kids saying "you're the one talking" but I repeat it only lessens the possiblity because after saying those lines, I still hear kids saying their "you're the one talking" line. The advantage is most of the time the smarter kid beside the heckler will tell him "He said that already, he said he's doing the voice of the puppet" and maybe that's the best part to do...the Kimmo and mdsparks ideas/lines. Thanks Wanlu
"The Old Path"
www.angdatingdaan.org Wanlu's Affordable Puppets http://wanlu.net/ventpuppets.html Wanlu and his Puppets http://wanlu.net |
Wanlu Inner circle Manila, Philippines 3058 Posts |
Saw your YouTube clips Kimmo...you're great!!!
You don't need an OUT for the "you're the one talking" problem You have great lip control and the act is simply fantastic already...I doubt if you still get that line from kids... The puppet looks great and wow the Ax Remote Drawing Board is making me DROOL Visited your site as well and obviously we both love Ax You are a great performer Kimmo...we have lots to learn from you. Please keep it coming Thanks Wanlu
"The Old Path"
www.angdatingdaan.org Wanlu's Affordable Puppets http://wanlu.net/ventpuppets.html Wanlu and his Puppets http://wanlu.net |
Eddie Garland Inner circle Hells Kitchen, New York City 4207 Posts |
Brilliant Kimmo!!!
Really enjoyed that...what a great act! Fantastic performer...really great fun to watch! |
kimmo Inner circle Sheffield 1193 Posts |
Thankyou Walnu, Eddie and Steve!!
The routine with the Axtell Willie puppet is my version of Steve Taylor's 'Frog Prince' routine which you can find on his 'Humoring your Dummy' DVD. I would recommend Steve's DVD's to all ventriloquists. I got mine from Axtell. Not sure if Steve sells them via his own site. Maybe someone can put up a link if he does? Posted: Oct 19, 2006 2:41pm -------------------------------------- Re. my post above. Here is a link to Steve Taylor's site: http://www.stevetaylorpro.com/ventriloquism.htm
VISIT MY ONLINE STORE!: www.kimmomagicshop.com
NEW LECTURE NOTES - SHOW US YOUR TRIX NOW AVAILABLE AS AN INSTANT DIGITAL DOWNLOAD! Kimmo DVD available Now! Watch the promo here! Order your copy NOW! CLICK HERE! ENTERTAINER,MAGICIAN AND VENTRILOQUIST'S BLOG - DON'T READ THIS... |
mdspark Special user 784 Posts |
One thing I find that works really well..especially if you are a beginner vent...
Start the routine with you puppet 'whispering' in your hear..you of course repeat what he tells you so the kids know what he said...have him whipser for you to help him talk...."Oh..but I am a magician..not relaly a ventriloquist...they will see my mouth move." Then ask the kids..should I help him talk? they will say YES.... "Is it ok if my mouth moves?"..."YES"....Then to do the best CLEAR vent that you can for the rest of the routine.... Hope this helps! Mark |
axtell V.I.P. Steve Axtell 2126 Posts |
If you can't vent yet, you can still use a puppet! Read this page (scroll down to the bottom!) http://www.axtell.com/cafe.html
Ax
Axtell Expressions, Inc.
Pro Puppets, Magic & Animatronics |
kimmo Inner circle Sheffield 1193 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-10-18 19:22, kimmo wrote: I've just uploaded a new video of the same routine with the PA system working correctly: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kg_Rf-Yjk9A
VISIT MY ONLINE STORE!: www.kimmomagicshop.com
NEW LECTURE NOTES - SHOW US YOUR TRIX NOW AVAILABLE AS AN INSTANT DIGITAL DOWNLOAD! Kimmo DVD available Now! Watch the promo here! Order your copy NOW! CLICK HERE! ENTERTAINER,MAGICIAN AND VENTRILOQUIST'S BLOG - DON'T READ THIS... |
Wanlu Inner circle Manila, Philippines 3058 Posts |
Wow...I can never do it without a P.A. system...that's so difficult.
...even with one, I'm already struggling
"The Old Path"
www.angdatingdaan.org Wanlu's Affordable Puppets http://wanlu.net/ventpuppets.html Wanlu and his Puppets http://wanlu.net |
Roslyn Inner circle UK 3405 Posts |
I'm very new to using puppets (about 51 minutes actually) and I just caught the video on YouTube.
I was laughing out loud all the way through it, HILARIOUS! Thanks for sharing it. Ros
The Magic Cafe account of The Conwy Jester, Erwyd le Fol formerly known as Roslyn Walker.
My home online Join me on Facebook Follow me on twitter |
magicgeorge Inner circle Belfast 4299 Posts |
Great stuff, Kimmo, I was chuckling the whole way through those clips. The spiderman gag and the act like a girl bit completely cracked me up.
Nick, I had exactly the same fear when I added vent to my shows but it hasn't happened at all really. It just doesn't seem to be an issue, which was a pleasant surprise for me! Just go for it and you'll find most of your worries unfounded. George |
Chatterbox41 Veteran user Atlanta, Georgia 349 Posts |
Kids are honest... they'll tell you if they see your lips move. But when they say, "I saw your lips move" the figure can tell them "Then don't look!"
You can always make it part of your routine. Another point is work very hard for good technique for the first 3 - 5 minutes of your show. After that, they don't look for the lips as much. If you have to, try and keep the labials to a minimum for the first 3 - 5 minutes. Gary |
Dean A Regular user 114 Posts |
That's a very good line Chatterbox.
I think the general rule is the same as a heckler with magic, ignore it for as long as you possibly can and then diffuse it with something really funny that will make everyone..including the parents, laugh. At the same time this should not in any way demoralise any audience member...at a kids show at least. As Kimmo has pointed out, this sort of thing very rarely happens and when I hear of this fear it reminds me of myself a while back. I think you can put it down to jittery performers guilt if anything. It takes a loooong time to get comfortable with vent and an even longer time to learn how to do it really well. ALL the elemets that involves considered. It probably looks much better than you think. The comment about the first minute or so is very important though. Once you have established the picture you can deviate. To be honest I only thgink about one thing during vent these days. 'laughs' When I am doing vent that is all I think about now. Getting laughs. So if you focus on that I doubt that any kid would have time to ark up a stink with you. Before I only thought about that, all I thought about was the 'separation' and the laughs. Before that, all I thought about was the 'lines', the separation and the laughs. it was a while ago that I thought about the lips in all that. I move my mouth all the time but at the right times..if that makes any sense at all. Usually when I get excited, or when the character gets excited, or when the audience gets excited. Lip control is VERY important and needs to be mastered and almost forgotten. It's like a 'One Hand Top Palm' in card magic. There is so much guilt surrondong a move like that in the early days but then one day you forget about being scared and your persnonality and your audience are much more imporatant than the move. You still do it and in most cases you do it really well but it doesn't really matter. What matters most is all the other stuff. 'The magic' 'The character', 'The comedy' If you watch Jeff Dunham closely during his Sweet Daddy Dee skit on the latest DVD. he actually mouths whole phrases. He is so well established and so funny and the characters are so well defined that it doesn't matter. On the other hand we are talking, there, about a person who has some of the best lip control in the business. Try saying all that without moving your lips. D |
Slappy Loyal user North Hollywood, CA 266 Posts |
One tip to cover loose lips involves timing your head movements. When you have a difficult word, simply turn your head to your figure as your saying the word. Pick out the spots where this might happen and match it to a head movement...maybe a quick "double-take", a look offstage, a turn to your figure, etc. just as the word is spoken should do the trick. The key to comedy(and ventriloquism) is timing!
Slappy
"Help, I've got a silver ball stuck on my thumb"
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Tony James Inner circle Cheshire UK 1398 Posts |
Kimmo
That was good. I think there's two things to add. And I would say that these are the two most important of all and apply whether you are a vent or - like me - someone who uses a silent puppet that talks (whispers) only to you. First, believe in your figure. handle it. Live with it. Talk to it, like you would to a cat or dog. Until you believe in it, you won't achieve the second. Which is, concentrate the audience's attention on the figure. It's simple misdirection. Some of the best vents I've seen have moved their lips - somewhat. Detectable. IF you watched. Their skill was misdirecting your attention to the puppet. Just one other. It's like the magician who ENTERTAINS you so well that you don't care how he does it. You're enjoying yourself too much. Now, go look at Kimmo again and see what I mean.
Tony James
Still A Child At Heart |
chris mcbrien Inner circle Chicago 1235 Posts |
Nicholas,
There are completely silent vent acts. Add words as you become more daring. It's the MOVEMENTS of the puppets, the body language, that really starts it. I know you'll be great! Kimmo's great to watch. I still have the Axtell video tape with him on it...he was great then, but now he's BRILLIANT! |
kimmo Inner circle Sheffield 1193 Posts |
Thanks for the compliments guys. It's funny reading what Tony posted because I do believe Charlie is real. My girlfriend sometimes rolls her eyes when I come home from a show and start telling her the stuff that Charlie ad-libbed today, but that is honestly the way it feels.
Tony's probably about to call the yellow van to pick me up again!
VISIT MY ONLINE STORE!: www.kimmomagicshop.com
NEW LECTURE NOTES - SHOW US YOUR TRIX NOW AVAILABLE AS AN INSTANT DIGITAL DOWNLOAD! Kimmo DVD available Now! Watch the promo here! Order your copy NOW! CLICK HERE! ENTERTAINER,MAGICIAN AND VENTRILOQUIST'S BLOG - DON'T READ THIS... |
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