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daffydoug Eternal Order Look mom! I've got 14077 Posts |
You know, somtimes life just has a way of testing us. I'll explain.
In my town, there is a main highway that leads out of town into another highway. Anyway, on a REGULAR, almost daily basis, as you reach the intersection, you are confronted with this sight: There is a rather oldish looking guy, who sits on a suitcase, with his head hanging down. Traffic whizzes past him, but so far he has not been hit. Anyway, he always has a sign that reads (you guessed it) "homeless, will work for food" Everytime I go past him I am confronted with a barrage of conflicting thoughts. And an even stronger conflict of what is the right thing to do for a felow human being who is in this situation. My conflicting thoughts are many. They include: "Is he REALLY homeless, or is this a scam?" "What if that was ME someday? How would I like to be treated?" "If he will work for food, why doesn't he shave, and just DO it?" "Will work for food really translates into I will not REALLY work for food, just please have pity on me and give me free money" "How did this man ever end up with so little self esteem that he would lower himself to begging?" "I myself am only one mortgage payment away from being in his shoes. It can happen to ANYBODY." "What if he is an angel in disguise, and this is a Divine test to see how we treat a fellow human being on the jericho Road" "If I give him a dolar or two, he would probably blow it on booze" "Giving him money will not help him, but only strengthen his habit" "It must be TERRIBLE to end up in his situation! "Somebody needs to show the man human compassion." "He probably makes a hundred dollars a day doing this, and stuffs it in his mattress!" "This kind of thing can't be real, because it only happened during the geat depression! He is an anachronism!!" "The man needs a hug and some kind words." "The man needs someone to speak some FIRM words and wake him up! Perhaps then he will see the world from OUR perspective! (which happns to be the correct perspective.)" "Why don't you offer to just take the man out for a hot cup of coffee and a sandwich?" And these are just a few of my conflicting thoughts, when considering the moral and right thing to do. My question is this: What would you do in this situation? How would you respond? Would you just drive on by, or would you be the good samaritan? Do you think a guy like this is for real, or is it a clever con? What do you guys say?
The difficult must become easy, the easy beautiful and the beautiful magical.
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MAKMagic Special user I got banned for one of my 555 Posts |
I think that when it comes down too it, in most of these scenarios, these folks are there by choice. Be they choices of the past or not. That man is at that intersection sitting in that spot with that sign by HIS choice. The companies "Labor Ready" are floating around and popping up everywhere...you walk in, get work for the day, get paid for the day. End of discussion. Now, I'm not saying there is anything wrong with it, because that's his choice, and he is apparently OK with it. Why should I not be? Generally, if I'm feeling generous or pitious I'll drop change to someone like that. Someday I may not have anything, still feel that way and feel bad that I can't. But I remember in the end, he is there because he chooses to be. There is ALWAYS a way to make money, and legally. If you don't believe me, let me tell you about REAL poverty. I've been to India, and I've seen people in TRUELY desolate environments and situations they CAN'T control...but many still do, they work for near nothing, but they do. I can't accept the fact that in the United States, someone can't find a job. I have a full time job with a large Pharma, AND I work at Ruby Tuesdays AND I perform magic AND I draw portraits AND I have a pregnant wife and two 3 year olds. If I can have 4 jobs, someone else can get 1.
You are where you are because you want to be, if not, you'd be doing something to change it [/end rant]
.:Michael Kelley
On the Level, By the Square |
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Chrystal Inner circle Canada/France 1552 Posts |
Good Question Daffy.
I suppose I'd hand him some food and water and look him in the eye while doing it. There's been several news people whom have tested how people react to the homeless and one of the things mentioned that even while giving them money - people avoid the eye contact. Another thing people do is yell "get a job" or something to that effect. Just before Christmas last year, a homeless fellow in my area was washing the floors of the coffee house for extra cash. He greeted me when I entered and I apologized for walking on his newly washed floor. In our conversation he mentioned his two dogs whom were waiting outside for him. I peered out the window and saw them, one was an aged dog whom was 12. He had them both in "people sweaters" and had laid carboard down so the dogs wouldn't feel the chill from the ground. It was a cold night. After I left I thought of him and his dogs. He was trying and who was I to judge as to what hand of cards in life was dealt to him? I noticed him quite often after that time, and most of the merchants in the area knew him as he often asked if he could do odd jobs for them. I spent the next two weeks stuffing a huge backpack with blankets, food, homemade treats, and left them at the coffee shop anonomously with his name on it. Although he was down on his luck he still had his dignity. It the same thing with a young girl in my area whom is addicted to drugs. I noticed her last summer always hanging around the large supermarket. The first time she approached me she said she was pregnant and needed cash to get back home to her family. She used the same line for months and each time I would say ..hey that's what you told me last time". Although I never gave her money, I always opened up my bag of groceries and gave her some items. I would see her sit down with her buddy and proceed to eat the food. There was no doubt that while she begged for money for her addiction she was also hungry. I wondered about her family and if they were worried that their daughter was "somewhere". This summer she's been hanging around the gas station where I stop for gas a couple times a week. I guess the security guards at the other place were tired of her badgering the customers for cash and so she found a new place. I was shocked at her deterioration in the year since I first noticed her. She has lost her youthfulness and looks old and haggard although I suspect she's not older than a teen. Crack is her drug of choice and so I still give her food when I see her occasionally but never money. Last year coming home from a bridal shower with a platefull of take home goodies my sister gave me. Little tiny dainty sandwiches. I noticed a young guy by the lights while waiting to make a left hand turn. Hey are you hungry?, I asked. He said he was and I mentioned I had this plate of sandwiches. He was careful not to touch any of the others while choosing one until I told him it was okay if he took a couple. He thanked me politely and went back to his seat. A friend of mine whom drives a very expensive car was stopped at a street corner by a panhandler and gave them a quarter. They promptly threw it back at him with a few choice words. So in a nutshell, I guess each person (homeless or not) has their dignity and can still have manners, while some don't. I know not everyone would agree with me, as each time I have to weigh how dangerous the situation is and while I wouldn't invite them home for a meal. I still offer to share what I have. My van still contains an assortment of stuff I give out if someone ask. |
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Steve V Inner circle Northern California 1878 Posts |
My brother is one of those you see with the sign that says "homeless, please help". Why is he there? Well, a few reasons. First off he is a major league alcholic. He can get off the street and into a program but he doesn't want to be locked up for forty days to dry out. He has had long periods of sobriety but he usually ends up with some skank who uses his place to crash and then either gets him drinking again or calls the cops to get him out of the place so she, and usually her hoodlum kids, can take over the place for the three months or so it will take to get tossed out. His major problem though is he has brain damage due to an accident, getting run over. He has serious problems with short term memory and when they schedule him to be checked so he can get social security etc he never remembers to go because of the brain damage and he is blitzed all the time. Sober he is an interesting and even charming guy, drunk he is a pain in the arse. His last problem was my mother died and he lost his protector. At my mothers death bed, and I mean this, my father turned to him right at the moment the line on the monitor went flat and said "your worse nightmare has just come true", the next day my father kicked him out of the house, where he was staying to recover from his accident. Why don't I take him in? I can't because he tried to grope my wife and thus is status non gratis, and I was the last person to welcome him in my home. I did set him up once in a very nice housing situation with one and only one rule, he could not bring over the woman who stole his apartment or her children as they were criminals and he couldn't touch any computer equipment. The next day I went to check on him and the woman was there, her kids in route, and she had removed all the computer equipment to set up in another room. That was it, I've not seen him in several months but have been told he looks worse than ever and from what I understand he will soon lose his leg, another result of the accident years ago.
Having been around the real homeless (and there are many fakes out there who are not homeless but 'sign' for a living) people I've realized that they come in either one of three classes (with the rare exception). The most common is the drunk or drug addict who just ran out of people to crash with, their bridges burn brightly behind them. These guys, if you catch them straight, are okay for the most part. Next you have the mentally ill and they should be put into homes or hospitals. These are the most dangerous usually. Lastly is the guy who shows up in town with wife and kid in tow with nothing and needing a job. These are the saddest ones. Most of these folks really do need help of one sort of another, the scam guys need an arse kicking. They live in a dog eat dog world and steal from each other and try to protect each other. My brother has been homeless, with the exception of a 15 month period of sobriety, since 2001. Steve V |
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NJJ Inner circle 6437 Posts |
Chrystal - I wish I was more like you! I give but not nearly enough.
I'd rather give $5 to a homeless guy and risk it being a scam then NOT give $5 to someone in need. Who cares if he is a scammer? Its only $5! That aside, this guy didn't ask for money. He said he will work for FOOD. So offer to buy him a lunch, have a chat and see what his story is. All of the questions you asked yourself were all kind of self focused. <quote> "What if that was ME someday? How would I like to be treated?" "If he will work for food, why doesn't he shave, and just DO it?" "Will work for food really translates into I will not REALLY work for food, just please have pity on me and give me free money" "How did this man ever end up with so little self esteem that he would lower himself to begging?" "I myself am only one mortgage payment away from being in his shoes. It can happen to ANYBODY." "What if he is an angel in disguise, and this is a Divine test to see how we treat a fellow human being on the jericho Road" "If I give him a dolar or two, he would probably blow it on booze" "Giving him money will not help him, but only strengthen his habit" </quote> It does not matter whether it MIGHT happen to you...because it IS happening to him. It does not matter if it is a divine test and you might get kicked out of heaven...help him because it is the RIGHT thing to do. If he is a junkie, then the working for food will do him no harm. If he is mentally ill, you might be able to help him find some help. If he is down on his luck, you could help change his life. |
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daffydoug Eternal Order Look mom! I've got 14077 Posts |
A lot of food for thought here.
The difficult must become easy, the easy beautiful and the beautiful magical.
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Chris Stolz Inner circle Mississauga, Ontario 1958 Posts |
It really is a difficult thing. There are many people like this in Toronto and I usually pass 2 or 3 on Bay St. every day. Most of these people have places to go which are funded by welfare, or some other government service. What some of them do lack however, is alcohol. Many of these people (Not all, but many), are alcoholics simply looking for the money to buy alcohol.
I have to be perfectly honest and say that it bothers me when someone stands out front of a coffee shop holding the door with a hat outstretched. A) He smells very healily of alcohol and B) I hate having to feel guilty every time I want to go get a coffee. I have compassion for the homeless, but it's hard to find too much for the drunks.
Chris Stolz
BLACK ART BOOK: Hiding In The Shadows. |
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Josh the Superfluous Inner circle The man of 1881 Posts |
I do charity work, but not for the homeless (although misers dream would tie in nicely). Perhaps volunteering at a shelter would be the best solution. As would voting for human service funding, and oversight of those operations.
If a person could stay sober enough to show up on time and hold a sign, there are jobs out there. If they weren't able to meet those qualifications, I can't imagine a job they could do. I don't know what a pizza store sign holder makes, but I think it would pay for food. I use to do telephone market research. I hated the job, but did it to pay the bills. When I'm approached by articulate beggars with working arms and hands, I often think of that.
What do you want in a site? "Honesty, integrity and decency." -Mike Doogan
"I hate it, I hate my ironic lovechild. I didn't even have anything to do with it" Josh #2 |
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Marvello Inner circle It's amazing how little I can say in 1612 Posts |
People often choose to be homeless rather than seek the help through agencies, but people who do that obviously have mental problems. Unfortunately, Ronald Reagan's administration did away with most of the mental health help that was easily available, and people who would have been institutionalized now no longer have thatIndiv option, so the burden is placed on the rest of society.
On any given night, approximately 720,000 Americans are homeless and more than 2 million people are homeless throughout the year. According to conservative estimates, one-third of people who are homeless have serious mental illnesses, and more than one-half also have substance use disorders. Homeless people suffer from high rates of mental and physical health problems exacerbated by living on the streets and in shelters. Homeless people often lack access to preventative care, waiting until a trip to the emergency room is a matter of life or death. The majority of homeless individuals with untreated psychiatric illnesses regularly forage through garbage cans and dumpsters for their food. An estimated 20 percent of the population has some sort of serious mental illness during their lifetime. The consequences of homelessness tend to be more severe when coupled with mental illness. If we don’t fund mental health care programs that are effective at treating the homeless and getting them off the streets we will be wasting precious redevelopment dollars that help our business communities grow and our local economies prosper. Among people recovering from drug and alcohol addiction, those who remain homeless are likely to experience much less improvement in mental health compared to those who are housed. Despite the grim statistics, studies show that supported housing is an effective option for communities working to meet the needs of people with mental health disorders who are homeless. In fact, people who are homeless and have mental illnesses or co-occurring disorders are more likely to recover and stay off the streets if they have access to supported housing programs. Supported housing offers stable homes and services such as mental and physical health treatment, supported education and employment, peer support, daily living skills training and money management instruction.
Never criticize someone else until you have walked a mile in their shoes. Then, when you do criticize them, you will be a mile away from them and you will have their shoes.
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James F Inner circle Atlanta 1096 Posts |
This is something we are discussing in my Ethics class. In my personal opinion we have a moral obligation to help those who are less fortunate than us. One can rational it as "They got themselves there" or "They'll just spend it on drugs" or "Why don't they get a job" but we still have an obligation to help. As you yourself said, a lot of people aren't THAT far off from being in this situation and it can happen. This is not to say that some homeless people WILL spend the money on drugs or that they aren't trying to find a job, but that isn't the point. I think giving that person money probably isn't the best thing to do, but buying them a meal or a new pair of pants or a shirt definitely is.
Also, its good to see other people talking about mental illness. A lot of homeless people are mentally ill, not just so called lazy bums who wont work. Of course doing this once and a while for a homeless person doesn't solve the problem. I think doing as Josh mentioned and volunteering would help make a more permanent solution. (especially if more people did it as well) However, showing some compassion for someone so unfortunate every once and a while is great thing. James |
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NJJ Inner circle 6437 Posts |
James - It does not solve the over all social problem but it does solve the immediate problem. The guy is hungry and you can feed him.
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ralphdean Loyal user Northern Ca 300 Posts |
Nicholas, Reminds me of the story of a beach where fish or something had washed up and were dying. The beach was covered and there was no hope of survival yet someone went out and started throwing them back in the water. When ask why bother it would not not make a difference she replied that it made all the difference in the world to the ones who are saved.
You know after it rains and earthworms climb up on the sidewalk to commit suicide? I can not pass one of those little guys. With people I can. When I drive to work and see five or six people on the side holding signs. I can not help them all but, on a regular basis I do help one. There is a guy in the neighborhood who lives out of a cart. He will sweep in front of a store for some money. I have never seen him ask for a handout without doing something in return. He is one that I can not pass without giving him something. Steve V. - My brother too lives on the street. He does not use a sign but he does get one meal a day at a mission. He was the smartest in the litter. Went to Stanford, became a pharmacist, and sampled too much of his product. It is tough but it is the life he has chosen and trying to do more than getting him a change of clothes or a blanket is wasted. He will lose it or walk away from it. He does not live within society well but he does seem to live outside of society just fine. |
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daffydoug Eternal Order Look mom! I've got 14077 Posts |
"pharmacist sampled too much of his product" wow! Man, that's a heavy trip!
The difficult must become easy, the easy beautiful and the beautiful magical.
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NJJ Inner circle 6437 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-10-20 19:36, ralphdean wrote: But Ralph, we have a perfectly good system of soil and grass for earthworms. It is the earthworms choice to climb onto the path. "But the president says that the homeless are homeless by choice. It would be unamerican of us to make them affluent against their will." - Radioactive Man |
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ralphdean Loyal user Northern Ca 300 Posts |
True Nicholas, And you can argue that I am defeating Darwin by rescuing the worms that are stupid enough to do this. We all have our quirks.
Who is radioactive man? I like the way he thinks, in a sarcastic sort of way. |
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johnnymystic Inner circle North Adams Ma. 1576 Posts |
By choice I've lived among the homeless, the scammers and the all around sad sacks. Most have mental/health/addictive/etc. problems,all of whom my heart went out to...
DaffyDoug, there is a reason you are having these feelings towards this "homeless person who will work for food", you have conflicted feelings that suggest in some way you care. Now it's time to do something about it. johnny
I drink cheap tequila and vomit
<BR>I cannot eat hot wings...acid reflux <BR>I never inhale <BR>I can put a field dress on a deer |
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James F Inner circle Atlanta 1096 Posts |
"James - It does not solve the over all social problem but it does solve the immediate problem. The guy is hungry and you can feed him."
Exactly. Im not sure if I came off the wrong way...But I meant that you SHOULD help someone in this situation. (I was just pointing out that it wont solve the overall social problem, but it sure helps that one person) I think it is definitely the right thing to do. How can helping someone less forunate than you be anything but great? |
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thegreatsantani New user L.A. 57 Posts |
Every year my wife and I find a FAMILY at the holidays that have come accross hard times and sponsor them in getting things for thier kids, however we have a few requirements, the MUST NOT be on the system, they must have just fallen victem to circumstances (fire, laid off {not quit} car accident ect) The only rule we have (and I did this before the movie) is that they must in turn help another when able. We have kept in touch with most and they have. As far as HOMELESS people who will work for food, that is what I do, every day I leave my house and go to work so I can buy food and shelter.
On another note the local news did a story where they followed "HOMELESS" people from their corner to their "home" Now, I know they picked the worst case scenoro for the news but most went to prtty nice apartments and had cars. They asked why and a few even responded they just like standing instead of shoveling dirt for a living and they make better money standing. I give a generic application to those people and wave as I am on my way to work. TGS |
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Steve V Inner circle Northern California 1878 Posts |
When I lived in an apartment my neighbor was a 'signer' who claimed to be a homeless vet, he was neither. That doesn't mean they are all like that of course, most are not. My brother, where ever he is, uses the money for food and booze and lives a horrible existance.
Steve V |
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freefallillusion1 Elite user Cincinnati, OH 446 Posts |
When I was in high school, my first job was part time at a McDonalds. I worked on weekends, and a few hours after school during the week. I didn't make much money this way BUT I made enough that I could have held down a cheap apartment if I'd had to. Every shift I worked, I got two meals (on break and when I got off) so there's a major portion of the food bill. It wouldn't have been living like a king but it would have at least been surviving, and that was only a part time job that I simply walked in and got.
Also, I was once in New York and passed by a woman who had the usual "need help" sign, etc., and in addition, had a small dog and cat. Her sign said that she was hungry and needed food for her animals. The next day we passed by again, and there was the same set-up, same dog and cat, but being run by a MAN this time. I guess it was the woman's day off. |
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