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Illusionized
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Hi, I am new to bizazare magic. It all sounds really cool, and I have an idea about where I want to start, but I have one small problem. I did a search, and couldn't find anything on it. I am a Christian, and attend church regularly. Will me performing interefere with my beliefs(if you know what I mean)? I can't describe exactly what I am trying to say. Would bizzare magic be sac-religous, or will most of it be ok? Thanks for any help.
Gede Nibo
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First, indeed, yu must sell a portion of yur soul--therees no way yu can practice bizarre magic without becoming enlightened, at least to a certain degree...

I have first dibs on yur soul....
Tony Iacoviello
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Illusionized

It all depends on you. Personally, I have not problem performing bizarre, even though I am a person of faith. If you can distinguish entertainment from reality, there should be no issue. But if you are the type of person who watches a movie, say Ocean's Eleven, and the next day you are casing casino's, stay away.

Tony
Bill Ligon
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Illusionized, PM Leland Stone. Among a few others (like Tony Eye), he is a "person of faith," a Christian, and bizarre magician, too. If in the process of learning bizarre magic, your eyes are opened to the vastness of the universe, that's not a bad thing either.

You could, of course, let Mystician bite you and remove your soul that way.... Oh, but I see Gede Nibo has dibs on it.

Sacreligious? Heck, a litle blasphemy never hurt anyone! Smile

Naljorpa
Author of THE HOLY ART: Bizarre Magick From Naljorpa's Cave. NOW IN HARDCOVER! VIEW: <BR>www.lulu.com/content/1399405 ORDER: http://stores.lulu.com/naljorpa
<BR>A TASSEL ON THE LUNATIC FRINGE
Gede Nibo
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Quote:
On 2006-10-22 13:37, Bill Ligon wrote:

Sacreligious? Heck, a litle blasphemy never hurt anyone! Smile

Naljorpa


actualy, it caused people like Jesus, rasputin, joan of arc, john baptist etal quite a lot of pain.................
Bill Ligon
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Well, Baba, I DID say "a little." But I gotta admit that you're right. Joan was a bit burned up about it all, John lost his head when he got to preachin', and little ole Raspy, I guess, was a bleedin'-heart. I ain't gonna say nuffin' about that other guy you mentioned!

Nal
Author of THE HOLY ART: Bizarre Magick From Naljorpa's Cave. NOW IN HARDCOVER! VIEW: <BR>www.lulu.com/content/1399405 ORDER: http://stores.lulu.com/naljorpa
<BR>A TASSEL ON THE LUNATIC FRINGE
The Curator
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Not to mention Giordano Bruno and some witches and heretics...
gaddy
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Bizarre magic is just a style of performance.

It's meant to entertain people in the same manner as a horror movie. To amuse and creep them out at the same time! If you find this to be sacreligious (and many do...) it's not for you.

Bizarre magic can also delve into areas of the psyche that most mainstream religions would rather stay locked up tight (I wonder why that is, BTW...). But you'll use your own judgement on this and you'll stay away from stuff that makes you or your audience uncomfortable.

If you enjoy a good ghost story or two, you'll probably enjoy adding one or three "bizarre" effects to your repertoire.

good luck, pilgrim...

Gaddy
*due to The Magic Cafe's editorial policies, words on this site attributed to me cannot necessarily be held to be my own.*
Harlequin
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I have only been into bizarre magic for a couple of years and I am also Christian...although not Chelman (sorry, a little attempt at humour Smile ). Personally I don't have an issue with it, as I subscribe to Tonys idea about it being entertainment. However, I wouldn't perform my bizarre effects for my fellow church goers, merely out of respect that many of them just might not...get it. I have already nearly been excommunicated once already. Smile
Tony Iacoviello
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Magic almost got me kicked out of Bible college.

I posted the story on my blog http://tonyseye.blogspot.com entitled, Cultural Differences. (Its too long and possibly boring to repost here.)

You live and learn. Smile

Tony
ptbeast
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Tony -- as another non-Texan who went to school in Waco (Baylor Law), I can fully relate to your blog entry.

Illusionized -- I understand where you are coming from with your question, but the fact of the matter is that the only one who can answer it is you. As I am sure you are aware, not all Christians share all the same beliefs. Nor to all bizarrists approach magic in the same way or perform the same types of material. As you have seen, there are Christians that number themselves among the bizarrists (I am one of them) with out it causing a crisis of faith for them. For you it may or may be okay.

If you decide to explore the world of bizarre magic you will find ideas that challenge your beliefs. This is, in my opinion, a good thing. It teaches you to think for yourself and reconcile your beliefs with the real world. You will, at times, also find people in the bizarre community who will attack anything christian. If your faith is not strong enough to deal with that, then I would suggest staying away.

That said, most will agree to respect your beliefs and expect you to respect theirs. As long as you do that, you will be welcomed. I would suggest reading through this forum for a while. Look at old posts. The sit down and ask yourself if this is something that you want to pursue. If not, perhaps it is time to become dis-Illusionized.

I guess that is about as candid as I can be. Feel free to PM me if you would like to discuss this off the forum.

Dave
Gede Nibo
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That Guru Master Teacher reformer magician name Jesus--did Bizarre Magick, as the stories go--so wheres the beef???huh??:)
ptbeast
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Baba my brother, for me there is no beef (except on my plate). I also don't have a problem with having a drink (hell, I hope to open a winery) or dancing or playing cards or even eating meat. Some people do. Hence my answer that no one else can answer his question for him.
Gede Nibo
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Not to yu bro--musta been posting at the same time homie--didnt even seen yur post...
Tony Iacoviello
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Baba

If the question was for me, it should have been, Where's the fish?
But I'm not much for seafood, so I woudn't know.

Tony
Gede Nibo
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Just a general question Baba style is all...

but I will further it and say that, as I discourse upon in the ol' scroll, many a mystic was known for his or her magic--and yes, some did and do use sleights and the like to bring the wouldbe seeker closer to the "way" for lack of a better term....but ill stop now lest this thred turns into the "do yu believe in magic: exhaustion of a thread...(quick, hide this thread from Bill and Leland....) Smile

wait, one more thing...

if only we could realize that all these paths grew from earlier and earlier ways, and that the story of the Master Shaman Magician is e'er there--then I think many limitations and questions would meet their demise......

eg.,

12 disciples, 12 zodiac, but only One sun/son.....so next time yu do chelmans auspisious effect, know that it too has roots in many of your religions, thus all is well in bizarre land...

love
Baba
Tony Iacoviello
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Baba:

Its all magic, much religion is theater. If truth be told, what we do should be called magic, and what traditional magicians perform should be called bizarre. Ours has reason and purpose... Smile

Tony
Gede Nibo
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YESSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THAT touches 'pon ol' wise and noble Chmara's thoughts re: a man pulling a rabbit out of a hat , now that's bizarre, or something like that he alluded to....
Tony Iacoviello
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That Gregg is one smart cookie! Smile

Posted: Oct 22, 2006 11:49pm
What is more strange or bizarre; finding a card that a person has already seen in a deck, or conducting a ritual to make it rain?

Just a thought

Tony
pkg
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How about getting that selected car to fall out of nowhere from the sky?! Smile

and answering your question, you will be just fine! I am catholic by birth, I sometimes perform for churches (SOMETIMES) you will be just fine as long as you don't claim that you have supernatural powers (or play cradle of filth inside the church Smile)
Double posters should be shot!

No really!!
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