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trickyvicar
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Wow, what a cool subject to stumble across on the Café! I am a Christian magician' too. In fact I am an ordained priest. I LOVE magic and mentalism for exactly the same reason as why I am a priest - they both attempt to plug us in to something bigger than ourselves (i.e. the purely human) and they both (ought to) open us up to wonder, awe, questioning, changes of perspective, spiritual transformation (eek... hope I'm not sounding too weird here!). Sadly both magic and religion can do precisely the opposite of that. Magic can be trivialised into mere cheap tricks, and religion can end up making folk seem inflated, superior and cock sure certain (about things we... well... simply have no answers for).
I use magic and stories to evoke an experience of (hopefully) spellbinding enchantment. I NEVER use it to convert or infuence in a narrow way. Bizarre magic can very easily be a beautiful tool for telling spiritual / meaningful stories from the perspective of many world faiths / idiologies (Christian, Native American, Druid, Ancient Greek etc.)
So, Illusionized, go for it. And yes, as ptbeast said, it IS ALWAYS good to have your beliefs challenged. Thank you for opening up such a worthy topic for discussion.
Mark
'Bringing Wonder back to Life'
acesover
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I am relatively new to this forum so if my response to this post is inapproiate please remove and let me know. Having said that.

It seems from reading your post that you are possibly one of the younger members...this of course is speculation on my part. If your question is asking will it interfere with your beliefs...asking if it will change them. Only you can answer that. I do not mean to sound harsh here but if performing this sort of magic changes your religious convictions I do not believe that they were very strong from the start. Let me explain. As you know from performing them that they are all illusions or tricks and nothing more. However if you begin to delve into Fortune Telling, Tarot, occult etc. and begin to persue these on a different level other than performance... I feel that the answer to your question could possiibly be yes. It could alter your religious convictions. So what I am saying is that it really depends on you. Where you are going with this segment of magic?

I myself am a devout christian and perform some rather bizarre magic at times and it has not in any way affected my religious convictions. While I mention the fact that I perform some bizarre magic, my main stay is close up magic (amatuer magician, family, friends, bar, etc).

You often hear in the magic community the phrase "Religions have been started with less" when referring to an effect. Of course this is only a phrase but it goes to the heart of your question. What do you want magic to be in your life? Is magic your life or is it a magical part of your life. There is a distinct difference.

I did not mean to ramble but I felt your qestion comes from the heart and deserved a heartfelt response.

In conclsion I would just say step back and decide what magic,... bizarre or otherwise means to you and what you want it to mean.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
trickyvicar
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Good advice Acesover.
Mark T
'Bringing Wonder back to Life'
Bill Ligon
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Trickyvicar (what a wonderful handle!), I think many of us use bizarre magic to awaken "wonder, awe, questioning, changes of perspective, spiritual transformation" in our audiences. Personally, I believe that pursuing the subjects mentioned by Acesover for other than performance purposes is not a bad thing. I feel that the more one is exposed to ideas and beliefs, the more one's mind remains open to any sources of information, the greater is the opportunity for one's growth. Those who would attempt to restrict one's sources of information to those that are approved by any particular faith, religion, or group of believers are doing a disservice. This is, of course, deliberately understated, and I think they do more harm than good. It is the weakness of their own beliefs that leads people to attempt to censor access to knowledge and intellectual (and spiritual) growth.
Author of THE HOLY ART: Bizarre Magick From Naljorpa's Cave. NOW IN HARDCOVER! VIEW: <BR>www.lulu.com/content/1399405 ORDER: http://stores.lulu.com/naljorpa
<BR>A TASSEL ON THE LUNATIC FRINGE
acesover
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Quote:
On 2006-11-08 12:28, Bill Ligon wrote:
Trickyvicar (what a wonderful handle!), I think many of us use bizarre magic to awaken "wonder, awe, questioning, changes of perspective, spiritual transformation" in our audiences. Personally, I believe that pursuing the subjects mentioned by Acesover for other than performance purposes is not a bad thing. I feel that the more one is exposed to ideas and beliefs, the more one's mind remains open to any sources of information, the greater is the opportunity for one's growth. Those who would attempt to restrict one's sources of information to those that are approved by any particular faith, religion, or group of believers are doing a disservice. This is, of course, deliberately understated, and I think they do more harm than good. It is the weakness of their own beliefs that leads people to attempt to censor access to knowledge and intellectual (and spiritual) growth.


Bill...You are absolutely right in your statement: (I feel that the more one is exposed to ideas and beliefs, the more one's mind remains open to any sources of information, the greater is the opportunity for one's growth.)

I did not mean in my post that one is not to persue knowledge in order to make a decision. I was trying to answer his question as to whether it could change his current convictions, and as I statetd I felt that it could... as you and I by your post seem to agree it could. Better to make an informed decision. What I feel that you really bring to the table is not to say : Pick A or B...there is a whole alaphabet avaliable.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
Gede Nibo
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LUCIFER IS THE WAY......
Bill Ligon
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Acesover, I understand where you are coming from, and I think we are more or less on the same page.

Bill
Author of THE HOLY ART: Bizarre Magick From Naljorpa's Cave. NOW IN HARDCOVER! VIEW: <BR>www.lulu.com/content/1399405 ORDER: http://stores.lulu.com/naljorpa
<BR>A TASSEL ON THE LUNATIC FRINGE
trickyvicar
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Thanks Bill,
You are certainly right that many in 'bizarre magic' use it to open people up to 'wonder, awe, questioning, spiritual transformation etc'. That's why I love it so much. In fact I think I would say MOST bizarre magicians aim to effect people in this way (spiritually, emotionally and with a challenge to beliefs and perceptions).
By the way it's amusing that the ONLY magicial society / club I cannot join is the Christian one. I'm a member of The Magic Circle, IBM, and a couple of local clubs. However only the Christian one demands that I agree with a 'statement of faith' that I find narrow and exclusive!!!
Mark
'Bringing Wonder back to Life'
kaytracy
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Illuzionized
You might take a look at some of the stories posted at the Dragonskull site from the UK. A rather large number of those tales have very Christian baselines.
Bizarre does not always mean it haas to be about the horror aspect of magic. while that may be how it originally got its most recent incarnation, the genre of magic that makes one think about what just happened, or that points to the lesson of a parable or story has been around for many many years!

Others have said that your level of faith is your call, and that is very true. You have a brain and relatively free will to live your life, so that part really is on you.
As to the magic, that will be what you make it. Turning a staff into a snake? A bowl or goblet that refills when emptied? Think what tales you have heard of these "wonders". What lessons were told around them. Then think of what tales YOU might tell about them!
As an exercise, try going to a garage sale. buy something for less than a dollar. Study it, and write a page about it. Be Creative! Find the meaning for yourself in the metaphor of the object you are holding. THEN find a way to share that with others-Oh yea! feel free to create something magical about it too!
Kay
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Illusionized
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Wow, thanks for all the help. This is a really good forum.
trickyvicar
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I'm gonna be soooo cheeky now. But I have a book to be published in Jan 07 (available now on Amazon.com for pre-order) which comes from the perspective of a Christian Priest / Storyteller Magician. It is NOT 'gospel magic' but (rather) tries to offer a more open and inclusive approach. I am only telling you this, Illusionized, because there are a few story effects within the book that might be of interest to you. It is a book for the general public so no tricks are exposed in any way (but they are ones you will probably already know).
It is called The Gospel of Falling Down, and fits within the category of 'mind, body, spirit'. It takes a very universal approach towards spirituality, and will be relevant (I believe) to people of all faiths or none.
You can check it out on Amazon.com or (better still) the publisher's web site which is http://www.johnhunt-publishing.com. Then simply search for 'Gospel of Falling Down' or 'Mark Townsend' under authors. This site has more info on the book, as well as some endorsements.
I wish you well in your craft. It will certianly open up many doors - in many areas.
Brightest Blessings, Mark
'Bringing Wonder back to Life'
Katterfel22
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How you perform bizarre magic is ultimately tailored to you personally. As it is very dependant on storytelling, it requires more of your own personality than other forms of conjuring. So, unless you intend what you perform to be heretical, it will not be. Bizarre magic comes from within. It is not some malicious spirit that comes from without to change you. It is a performance style. It will not endanger your beliefs as a christian. Only you can do that. Smile
Hope this helps.
Cave ab homine unius libri - Latin epigram
Bill Palmer
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Illusionized:

I don't know why you would have any trouble finding anything about Bizarre magic on a google search. I tried it and got over 3 MILLION hits.

Bizarre magic is a very broad field. Sometimes it concerns horror stories. Sometimes it concerns dreams. Sometimes it concerns gore. The magic you present and the tales you tell are up to you.

If you can tell a fictional story without it interfering with your belief system, then you can do bizarre magic. If your belief system equates telling any kind of story with lying, then you can't do it, because even if your story is true, the magic you perform will be based upon some kind of misstatement or false assumption.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
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