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Dynamike Eternal Order FullTimer 24148 Posts 
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The reason clowns wear white gloves is so it will show high vision to where their hands touch a child.
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Red Shadow  Inner circle 1788 Posts
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It is not possible to have a camcorder in the room with you and the children. Due to release forms etc. If you film a child you will be in worst trouble than anything, and they can sue you for filming them!
I have filmed a few of my shows, but I got permission from the Birthday child's parents first. They asked a lot of questions about how the tape was to be used. However, in most circumstances there is nowhere to put the camera. I've placed it on a window sill, or high beem when available. But in most school halls, there is not a safe place to leave the camera, and expect it to remain there throughout the show. If you put it on a tripod, someone will knock it over and it will get in the way. In most parties, You will start off with the parents in the room, but they will leave you alone a few minutes after you have started the show to prepare the food etc. You just have to be careful and get on with the show. I have broken up a few fights over the years, which the parents refused to do anything about. I stopped the show and demanded that a parent come stop the children. They didn't care about the kids, only when I stopped doing my magic did they do anything. The best tool in this situation is to know about the pressure nerve on the shoulders. If you press a finger into this nerve, it causes pain in the child (or adult). This pain will be agonizing, but it vanishes immediately upon removing your finger. There are also no marks left. To an onlooker, it looks like you are just patting them on the shoulder. But the pain immediately stops that child from continuing in any fighting. Its also useful if a disruptive child it trying to steal your props etc. Its safe, temporary and an extremely useful devise for child control, as they soon learn what not to do. ku7uk |
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trixsntracks New user 69 Posts
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What do you guys do if a child usually a girl runs up at the end of the show wanting a hug and kiss? I have had this happen a few times sometimes the mums even encourage it! do you refuse and risk upsetting the child and parent, if a kid has enjoyed your show and they think of you as a freind then I suppose it's normal to a kid to want to be tactile, but in this day and age and because of a few sick individuals we as professionals have to cover all the bases sad but true.
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Dynamike Eternal Order FullTimer 24148 Posts
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Quote:
On 2006-10-31 05:34, ku7uk3 wrote: It really is possible to have a camcorder in the same room while performing. It is legal if the camcorder is visible. It would be illegal to use the recording as a promo or any other source to make money unless a model release form is signed by the children parents. But we are just discussing using the camcorder for protection. State laws are different, but I believe running a visible camcorder pointing at a magician during his/her performance is legal in all states as long as it is used for protection only. Quote:
I have broken up a few fights over the years, which the parents refused to do anything about. I stopped the show and demanded that a parent come stop the children. They didn't care about the kids, only when I stopped doing my magic did they do anything. I have been doing magic for years and never had a fight occur throughout my act. I always make sure I use the right tricks, words, personality, etc. If a magician is performing his/her act in an entertaining manner, keeping the kids attention, I see no reason why kids would want to fight during the show. |
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SeaDawg Special user The Lunatic Fringe 718 Posts
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As part of my "Pirate" birthday party, the Birthday child gets transformed into a pirate... I adorn them with an eyepatch, hat and a balloon parrot that sits on their shoulder. to secure the parrot I must put a pinch of thier shirt between the parrots feet.
Before I do that I ensure every know why and where I am touching the childs shoulder and make sure that the grown ups can watch everything. Overcautious, maybe... but I don't need any problems. Ensuring that our audience is safe and protected is one thing... but eliminating all interactions ( ie turning down sword fights etc..) I think is a little unnecessary. As for babysitting.... I often start large shows with the following statement.... "Unattended children will be given a cappacinno and a Free Puppy" ... this generally gets the point across...
Crazy people take the psycho-path thru the forest...
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Dynamike Eternal Order FullTimer 24148 Posts
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Quote:
On 2006-10-31 06:15, trixsntracks wrote: Good question. This had happened to me also several times. I stay facing the audience so the child is in vision to all. I just tap the child's back two quick times where my hands are in view. The child always releases the hug quickly after the light back taps. |
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Billy Whizz Special user Plymouth, UK 576 Posts
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Quote:
On 2006-10-30 21:56, jolly roger wrote: and anyone will tell you that in that city one is frequently put in a room alone with children for a couple of hours to entertain them. Roger, I'm really surprised. I know many professionals personally, and I know that not one of them would allow themselves to be put in this position. My contract states that two adults must at all time be present. I say two because one could be taking a child to the bathroom and there is still another present. I think to allow yourself to be put in this position is an un-professional thing to do when you make out that you have supposidly such high standards. I think it's just a matter of time before you'll end up in an embarrising situation. Billy |
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Bill Nuvo Inner circle 3094 Posts or 2742 Posts
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The hug issue is interesting. I have had this happen and I don't really hug them. Most of the time it is wee ones that come up and hug. I let them hug me (usually they grab around my leg) and I pat them on the back. It is hard because you don't want to upset the child, but then you have to protect yourself. As stated before, keep in mind about keeping hands in view and such.
Just the other day I was working with a clown who I heard all of a sudden say(she was a female clown) "Come here and give me a hug!" It was actually innocent enough because she thought the kids were cute, but I felt uncomfortable with her doing it. The parents were really watching her, never taking their eyes off. I really don't know what to think about this incident. As a parent, I can't imagine how I would feel one of my children told me about going to a party and having the entertainer hug them or be alone with them. I definately would feel a little suspicious. I would also question the parent(s) of the birthday child. My two oldest are 8 and 9 and I never let them out of my site when outside of the house. Maybe I'm just a worry wort. The sword issue is part of the reason why I don't make balloon swords. I don't want the chance of being beaten up (although I would set boundries before hand) and I don't want them to beat on each other and go crazy and possible knock over some expensive vase or something. I am sure if a child got hurt, some lawyer could trace it back to you giving a balloon sword.--My Opinion. |
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Donald Dunphy Inner circle Victoria, BC, Canada 7565 Posts
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Quote:
On 2006-10-31 05:34, ku7uk3 wrote: I have seen you recommend this before, I think. I hope that you are joking. If you are serious, then this is a big problem. You need to stop doing that immediately. It's physical abuse, even if it is "only for an instant". In all my years of performing shows and also working in child care, I've never had to resort to handling children roughly or hurting them to take control of a situation. I am not saying you can't touch a child. I'm saying it is not right to hurt a child physically. - Donald
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
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randyburtis Inner circle 1256 Posts
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On 2006-10-31 06:33, SeaDawg wrote: LOL LOVE that line... |
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randyburtis Inner circle 1256 Posts
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On 2006-10-31 09:54, Donald Dunphy wrote: It's not right and it is certainly illegal,I echo Donalds statement this IS physical abuse. Period. |
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Jonathanmc Loyal user Las Vegas, NV 209 Posts
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Donald, you left me out of the professional teacher category. But I forgive you (sniffle).
The Technique raised by Ku7Uk is one espoused by Dr. Dobson of "Focus on the Family" here in the states. I think it was only to be used by a parent needing to get immediate control of their own child. I don't think that it was ever meant to be used on other children. I question it's use ever but that is a different point. As to hugs and kisses. I think hugs are ok, kisses are way out. We were taught in college to try to make the hug a sideways hug or kneel down so there is no possible contact with the bathing suit region. Also never ever ask for one, male or female. It is totally up to the child to hug if they want to. Hugs don't pay the mortgage but they are the best tip you can get. |
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TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3174 Posts
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Quote:
On 2006-10-31 11:32, Jonathanmc wrote: Well said Jonathanmc. I’ve seen folks get into trouble by simply raising their voice at a child. That’s illegal too. There is really no way around it, you’re much better off if you simply insist that adults be there. I would think that any caring parent would appreciate this. Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ My Blog - https://boleware.blogspot.com/ |
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Potty the Pirate Inner circle 4632 Posts
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It's illegal to raise your voice to a child? Are you joking? Or is PC madness really that far gone in the States?
In provincial England (well, Brighton's kinda provincial), I feel comfortable when occasionally a child is left alone with me during my set up. I will usually talk to them and ask questions, and have them help by fetching something lightweight, or asking Mum for a cup of tea. Parents feel quite happy that their child is alone with me and they trust me. But I don't like being left alone during the party itself, and sometimes that just happens, even though I've asked for an adult to be present at all times. As for hugs, I also allow the child to hug my legs, and I place my hands lightly on their back for a second or two. Last week a little boy said he wanted to kiss me. I just screwed up my face and went "Eeeeeurgh! I'm not your Mummy, you know?" and he laughed. What do you do if the kids MUM wants to kiss you? It's happened to me several times, and I offer a polite "Continental" kiss, on each cheek. |
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ptbeast Special user Oregon 831 Posts
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I have to say that, as a trial lawyer, I find much of the advice given here to be way off base from a legal point of view, some of it overly cautious, some of it down right dangerous, and a great deal of it wrong. As an attorney, I am unable and unwilling to give what may be construed as legal advice on a forum like this one (it opens me up to liability and would be irresponsible given there are people from so many places here), but I do want to say that while discussing such a topic here may have value in stimulating you own thinking, please don't take the advice posted here and believe that you are protecting yourself. I would recommend sitting down with an attorney and discussing it. I know that sounds extreme, but it does not have to be expensive. I do counseling sessions like that for $35, and I am sure that there are attorneys in most area who would do similar. I would love to say that you could protect yourself just by using common sense, but I have learned that it simply isn't so common these days. Be proactive.
Dave Dave |
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John Bowlin Special user Maryland 827 Posts
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Legal advice...... $40-$2,500 per hour
Defending a 3rd degree sexual offense charge..... $2,000-$50,000 Using good common sense..... priceless |
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Donald Dunphy Inner circle Victoria, BC, Canada 7565 Posts
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Quote:
On 2006-10-31 11:32, Jonathanmc wrote: Sorry I missed you in my list, Jonathan. Please forgive me. BTW, good post. I think along the same lines. Quote:
Potty the Pirate said: I've been kissed by a mom on both cheeks a couple of years ago, while being hugged. Although a little unusual to me, I wasn't concerned, because she also kissed my wife on the cheeks, and hugged her, too. It was after we gave her the customer gift and thanked her for hiring us to do the birthday show, on our way out the door. - Donald
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
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TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3174 Posts
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Potty the Pirate,
Belittling, screaming, threats, blaming, sarcasm, etc, can be considered verbal assault. And Lawyers can make it sound like murder. I don’t think it’s just PC madness that’s taken over, times have changed, and being responsible for a group of children is a serious matter. More serious today than ever with wild kids and crazy parents the way they are. Not to even mention that many 12 year olds look like 18 years nowadays. I don’t mean for it to sound like we should throw up our hands and run every time we see a child, but I agree with Dave, common sense is not so common anymore. My best advice on kissing the mom is to ask to see a picture of the husband, that way you can see how big he is. 
Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ My Blog - https://boleware.blogspot.com/ |
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Jonathanmc Loyal user Las Vegas, NV 209 Posts
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Donald, no long term harm done.
When I said "kisses were way out," I meant from children. If the mother (or any other attractive woman in the room) wants to kiss me, that's fine with me. I do, however, insist we be alone in the room. My kissing talents are for an audience of one. |
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Potty the Pirate Inner circle 4632 Posts
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Tom,
I'm in the UK, and luckily we do have a fair amount of common sense here. As long as you treat kids with respect and gentleness, you should be OK. But I'm also aware that the PC craze is doing lots of harm as well as good. No doubt, in a few years, we'll all be as paranoid over here as you guys. I'm not saying we shouldn't take the same precautions as you, though; it's better to anticipate any possible future events. |
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Posted: Oct 31, 2006 10:08 am 
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