The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Magicians of old » » What to do with "discovery" concerning Black Carl. (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

SJMiller
View Profile
New user
East Tennessee
61 Posts

Profile of SJMiller
Have come across some new information regarding a turn of the century African American magician, Black Carl, and was wondering what the best way to disseminate it was. Not interested making any money from it because doing research is something I enjoy, but would like to ensure that I receive credit for the “discovery”. (So that I could say I gave something back to the art.) Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

S.J. Miller
gaddy
View Profile
Inner circle
Agent of Chaos
3149 Posts

Profile of gaddy
Now THAT is a tease! wow!
*due to The Magic Cafe's editorial policies, words on this site attributed to me cannot necessarily be held to be my own.*
Spellbinder
View Profile
Inner circle
The Holy City of East Orange, NJ
6438 Posts

Profile of Spellbinder
You could put an e-book biography of him together and advertise it or distribute it (FREE) on my site if you wish. Other solutions include writing up an article for one of the magic journals - Linking Ring, Genii, MUM, etc.
Professor Spellbinder

Professor Emeritus at the Turkey Buzzard Academy of Magik, Witchcraft and Wizardry

http://www.magicnook.com

Publisher of The Wizards' Journals
Jim Magus
View Profile
Loyal user
214 Posts

Profile of Jim Magus
I've got quie a bit of information on Black Carl that I published in my book Magical Heroes and am curious if you have found anything further. I have been looking, and have added to my information on Black Herman, Alonzo Moore, Professor Armstrong, and others, but have not been able to uncover more about Black Carl.
SJMiller
View Profile
New user
East Tennessee
61 Posts

Profile of SJMiller
I was lucky enough to get a copy of your book off of Ebay and am a big fan of it. Practically all of the info I have found regarding Black Carl is not to be found in your book. Some of it is biographical such as his real name, which is not William Carl, a wedding announcement, obits, and a letter to a friend that helps narrow down his place of birth to a couple of cities (At least in my opinion. Have been a African American historian for 16 years, so I think my opinion counts.)

The rest pertains to his career as a magician after 1909 as well as another job that he held for nealy a quarter of a century.
Jim Magus
View Profile
Loyal user
214 Posts

Profile of Jim Magus
I am very interested in your information. Black Carl was one of the most fascinating characters I discovered when researching my book.
Clay Shevlin
View Profile
Elite user
497 Posts

Profile of Clay Shevlin
SJ and Jim:

What's the earliest Black Herman pitchbook you've come across?

Clay
SJMiller
View Profile
New user
East Tennessee
61 Posts

Profile of SJMiller
Clay,
Most of the copies I am familiar with were printed after Black Herman's death and are usually listed as 15th printings. I can't say what the earlist copy one could find would be, but would imagine it would have to be after 1914 due to the fact that he was still performing as "The Great B. Rucker" at that time.
Jonathan Townsend
View Profile
Eternal Order
Ossining, NY
26975 Posts

Profile of Jonathan Townsend
Quote:
On 2006-11-03 00:58, SJMiller wrote:
... but would like to ensure that I receive credit for the “discovery”. (So that I could say I gave something back to the art.) Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


If you want to get the information out, inform Richard Kaufman and perhaps he can get you a feature article. Another option is to go with posting here or with spellbinder's site.

But you do need to decide which is more important, the data or your claim to finding it.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Clay Shevlin
View Profile
Elite user
497 Posts

Profile of Clay Shevlin
Many thanks for the info, SJ. I have 5 variants of his pitchbook, but am aware of several others. Everything is in boxes now (alas!), so can't check dates, but your comment was most helpful. Thanks again, Clay
SJMiller
View Profile
New user
East Tennessee
61 Posts

Profile of SJMiller
Quote:
On 2006-11-09 11:33, Jonathan Townsend wrote:

But you do need to decide which is more important, the data or your claim to finding it.


You make an interesting point Jonathan but it is not really as simple as all of that, at least to me. I don't think wanting credit for something I have been working on for nearly two years is a lot to ask in exchange for giving it away. It is no different than a magician wanting credit for an effect when he teaches it to someone.
Clay Shevlin
View Profile
Elite user
497 Posts

Profile of Clay Shevlin
SJ:

You should get due credit for your work. Depending on the size of what you end up writing, there are a number of magic history publications to consider, along with the mainstream mags like Genii and Magic.

I'd recommend that you complete your work and then get in touch with me. At that point, I could suggest some outlets for publication.

Or you could self-publish your work as a monograph or book.

In any event, the best of luck in your work. It's nice to hear that there are people out there studying various aspects of magic history.

Clay
Jonathan Townsend
View Profile
Eternal Order
Ossining, NY
26975 Posts

Profile of Jonathan Townsend
Quote:
On 2006-11-09 20:08, SJMiller wrote:
Quote:
On 2006-11-09 11:33, Jonathan Townsend wrote:

But you do need to decide which is more important, the data or your claim to finding it.


You make an interesting point Jonathan but it is not really as simple as all of that, at least to me. ...


I respect your perspective. Are you aware of mine? Of the choice I had to make and of the choices others made for me?

I too wish you the best and also the best for how your efforts are rewarded in this community.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Pete Biro
View Profile
1933 - 2018
18559 Posts

Profile of Pete Biro
Re: Magic Heroes. Is Emile Clifton mentioned? Emile was one of my early mentors in magic. He was a true war hero as a member of the all black Tuskeegee Airmen. He was shot down behind German lines, and found his way back to the Allied side. He won the Distinguished Flying Cross. He was one fine magician and actor.

His "Startled" is one of the best ways to do the MacDonald's Aces, and the "Clifton Ring Trick" has been heralded as one of the all time best moves with a ring and string.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
Jeff Dial
View Profile
Special user
Kent, WA
532 Posts

Profile of Jeff Dial
The best was get the information out there and receive proper credit for your research is to publish the material in a scholarly journal, assuming you don't have enough for an entire book. That way the material is more likely to be accessable to future historians.

You may want to check with The Conjuring Arts Research Center. You could also check with the African American History department/professor at a major university. (There probably is a better title for this, but it eludes me at present.)

Best wishes and congratulations on your find.
"Think our brains must be too highly trained, Majikthise" HHGG
Jim Magus
View Profile
Loyal user
214 Posts

Profile of Jim Magus
The earliest date I have seen on the Black Herman book is 1925, and there is reason to believe it is ghost authored by a Mr. Young, who wrote some other classic occult books under the names Henri Gamche and Louis de Clermont (also spelled Claremont). http://www.answers.com/topic/henri-gamache. I have heard that Mr. Young may have served as stage manager for Black Herman at some point.

Emile Clifton is not in Magical Heroes, but it sounds like he should be in the update on it (since its publication in 1995 I have collected a great deal of additional information and anecdotes, as well as corrections). I would like to know more about Emile.
Clay Shevlin
View Profile
Elite user
497 Posts

Profile of Clay Shevlin
Interesting info, Jim! I was aware of some of this, but not the bit about Young's possible connection with Black Herman as a stage manager.

Can't wait to see the second edition HEROES.

Clay
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Magicians of old » » What to do with "discovery" concerning Black Carl. (0 Likes)
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2019 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.11 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL