|
|
Go to page [Previous] 1~2 | ||||||||||
bobn3 Special user Wichita, KS 718 Posts |
Jon is correct in that all this is in our control. I feel fortunate that I have been in this field long enough that the best lessons that I have learned have been personal.
I was fortunate that I worked in a brick and mortar magic shop (Stevens Magic) in the late 70's and early 80's, and I had two mentors (John Novak, and occasionally Jay Marshall). They both taught me things that it would be very difficult if not impossible to learn on-line (its hard to develop that kind of personal relationship typing back and forth). Bob Phillips |
|||||||||
clamon86 Special user 508 Posts |
Well the internet is where magic is at. Its unfortunate and I don't like it at all, but that's the way it is.
Does that mean we should stop sharing. Jon Townsend, with respect, from my understanding your words are alittle hypocritical. For so long and still now you are annoyed when people take credit for your coin and edge grip work, or don't credit you at all. As far I as know you're original work wasn't published until several months in in Genii(or Magic), for public exposure. For some people, I can understand if they want only a select few to see their magic, but in the end if everyone starts doing that, where will magic go. Which is more important the art, the sharing, the secrets, or the performance. And since dvds and the internet, I think much of the good stuff has been lost in print. As Harry Lorayne has said so many times, "put it in print and you loose it." I'm not sure about THE COIN BOOK idea, but the underground magic is a good debate. I think its cool that some people want to be selective about who sees there work, but what will happen to that work in 10-15 years from now. |
|||||||||
bobn3 Special user Wichita, KS 718 Posts |
Well clamon, I agree in part with you and Harry, and I disagree in part. I have heard it said that "the best way to hide something is to hide it in plain sight." People basically do not find what they do not look for. This has always been true, even before the internet in the era of books. The books are there, but unfortunately, we now live in an era of instant gratification, so I guess you are correct in that the internet seems to be "where it's at" now. I will admit that I have learned some things on the internet chat lines, but "the skeleton is not fleshed out now like it used to be." 'Nuff said.
Bob Phillips |
|||||||||
Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-11-13 15:22, clamon86 wrote:... What makes you believe I wanted any of that material around at all? Do you have any doubt I could have asked Harry Lorayne or Richard Kaufman to publish it if I wanted the material in print?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
|
|||||||||
bobn3 Special user Wichita, KS 718 Posts |
Or L&L would have been more than happy to put it out in DVD format...of course stretched out to three volumes.
All kidding aside, I think the reason that a lot of people have published is that others have taken their material and presented it as their own. One would like to have some credit for their "children," if they are going to be "kidnapped" and sold into slavery. Bob Phillips |
|||||||||
Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
No comment about a market where children are abducted and sold into slavery. No comment about those who "find things to sell", "those who do the selling" or "those who buy things" in such a market.
I gave the article to Genii to give thanks to the people and places and ideas which informed my work regarding magic effected by the gaze of the magician.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
|
|||||||||
Fingers Inner circle Pennsylvania, USA 1330 Posts |
I really don't know how we got into this underground stuff, but the book I am talking about has nothing to do with it. The book would give away absolutely no secrets!
This is how the book would work. It would have, for instance, a list of routines, give a basic explanation of how the routine is suppose to look, then it would list coin magicians or artists that perform that routine and possibly made it very popular and finally tell you where you would need to go to get the details. The details would not be in the book. The book would tell you this routine, here, is explained by this artist and you would have to buy this book or that DVD or purchase that download to get the details of how to perform the routine. Correct me if I am wrong, but if a coin magician publishes his work either through books, DVD's, downloads or anything else, that material is now and forever non-underground material, if you will. Not only would the book give him credit, where credit is due, but it would also give him business for the materials he has put out for those seeking the knowledge of his works and labor in the particular areas of coin magic the person is interested in. Now this would not only apply to routines. I just used that as an example, but it could be for anything, sleights, misdirection study, originators of, lets say, a particular type gaff, a particular method or style, etc., etc. The book would only give you a very basic explanation, but for any real details the book would just direct you to possible books, DVD's or downloads from the artist(s) in question. I figure coin magicians publish their materials for a reason, they want to sell their ideas or inventions or methods to anyone interested. Maybe they just simply want recognition of their work or would just like to share what they know. The book would give recognition for the published works and business to the deserving coin magicians. The book I talk about would have nothing to do with exposing underground material! I do understand and respect coin magicians who want to keep their material underground. If they do I am sure they have good reason temporarily or even permanent. If they are the only ones who can do certain type performances their value or worth can be very high. Published coin magicians have decided not to be underground and would like to share their work, maybe for a fee, maybe not, its their prerogative, but if they are published that is how I look at it or maybe I am wrong?..........
Where I go, so do my coins.....
|
|||||||||
Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Fingers, now you're getting close to something like an art history text. And IMHO that would be a wonderful thing. Once you get down to the aesthetics and the technology things get much nicer. I see it as very useful to acknowledge the published good works of others in a way that encourages the reader to seek out the source material and where possible, the artist.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
|
|||||||||
rutabaga Inner circle Toronto, Canada 1283 Posts |
It was mentioned previously, and I have to agree that this is sounding more like a project for Wikipedia than a physical book.
|
|||||||||
Fingers Inner circle Pennsylvania, USA 1330 Posts |
Thanks Mr. Townsend, I truly think that coin magic is a wonderful art and I think there should be a way to give credit to those artists who have published, both through noting the originators of the various crafts of the art to giving visibilty to the lot of their wares.
I think you would be the exception, Mr. Townsend, but I feel that a lot of people are missing the big picture. I am kind of an organization freak, but what I see in coin magic is quite disorganized. The book I am talking anout would be a way of accomplishing the task of organization if done properly. The book would be a way of centralizing everything in one place and give you names and places to go to utilize the information that is already out there. Normally I think I would agree with you rutabaga, however, this book would be more than just a dictionary of coin magic. It would give you the history, tell you about the originators of this fine art and point you in the proper direction to get the proper specialized and detailed information you would need to participate in learning the craft of coin magic. So, no, I would not agree about a Wikipedia for coin magic. With Wikipedia as your source you would have to have a name or something to start with to look up, this book would supply that name you never heard before or that routine you never seen and go from there.....
Where I go, so do my coins.....
|
|||||||||
Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-11-14 09:43, Fingers wrote:... With Wikipedia as your source you would have to have a name or something to start with to look up... The Wiki permits multiple paths through the data and searches. This approach can offer the data by time (history), location (geography), theme or aesthetic approach or title of item or lots of other ways.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
|
|||||||||
Fingers Inner circle Pennsylvania, USA 1330 Posts |
Good point there, Mr. Townsend. I guess it would be possible to use Wikipedia as a source. However, after re-thinking the whole idea of my book I have come to the conclusion that maybe it isn't such a good idea afterall.
I think in the end it would be too revealing and give much to much easy access to the "secret" art of coin magic when placed in the hands of the general public. It kind of hurts in a way, because I do believe it would give some well deserved recognition to some awesome coin magicians.....
Where I go, so do my coins.....
|
|||||||||
Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
It's okay Fingers.
Instead, consider yourself invited to visit the pizza place and Maui Tacco in NYC on a Saturday afternoon to meet some people who study the craft and respect those whose accomplishments have helped the last and this generation do what they do in coin magic.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
|
|||||||||
Fingers Inner circle Pennsylvania, USA 1330 Posts |
Thank you very much for the invite Mr. Townsend. I don't know when I could get up that way, but I think a visit would be fantastic! If and when I would get the chance I will let you know. I am sure it would be a great learning experience.....
Where I go, so do my coins.....
|
|||||||||
magicbean New user 10 Posts |
Fingers,
I just read these series of posts and I congratulate you on starting an interesting debate. I don't believe that was your intention, however it is interesting to see how these things develop. The entire time that I was reading these posts, I kept seeing images of Hyla Clarkes, The Worlds Greatest Magic, floating in my head. This is a wonderful book, with a special chapter in close-up magicians like Jummy Gripo, Derek Dingle etc. There are some great bio's and photos of these entertainers perfotming their effects. This was a great book that exposed very little magic, however it gave great insight to these special performers. I remember wanting to read more and more, however there just wasn't enough info on more close-up magicians. I thought that perhaps your idea is actually pretty darn good, although I might be seeing it a bit differently than others. I would love to read a book in this format,great idea. |
|||||||||
Fingers Inner circle Pennsylvania, USA 1330 Posts |
Thanks magicbean, I do appreciate it and I still think the original idea is a good one. The problem with a project like that as I was made aware of is exposure and I think it is a valid concern.
I too think it could be made to be a very fascinating book, but a book like that you would want only in the hands of serious coin magicians otherwise it could tend to reveal to much information to the masses and afterall our art is one of which we want to maintain and hold in confidentiality or secrecy.....
Where I go, so do my coins.....
|
|||||||||
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Nothing up my sleeve... » » What we need is a coin magic book! (0 Likes) | ||||||||||
Go to page [Previous] 1~2 |
[ Top of Page ] |
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2024 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved. This page was created in 0.03 seconds requiring 5 database queries. |
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic. > Privacy Statement < |