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Regan Inner circle U.S.A. 5726 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-11-16 11:28, trixsntracks wrote: But I do not classify 9-year-olds as "older kids". May be different there, or maybe it's just me. However, I do shows for that age group all the time, and I have never felt that way about them. Or maybe I should say, they have never made me feel that they felt that way about magic. Now, as they get older, I can see where that happens, but not at 9. Anyway, that is how it seems to me. Now, competing with music and sports may be a stretch. Kids deal with music and sports every day, and some never tire of it. Magic, on the other hand, is an occasional treat. They are not exposed to, nor do they participate in, magic on a regular basis like in sports and/or music, so I don't know if it is comparable. How do others feel about this? Do you think 9 year olds feel like magic is not cool, or even stupid? I'd like to see if the US magicians and UK magicians have a different opinion about this. Regan
Mister Mystery
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trixsntracks New user 69 Posts |
Of course if you're gonna teach 'em how to do it, they will be interested! But this topic is about 9 year olds and older, so no one over in the states has had older kids at their show who don't want to be there, and think magic is for kids?! Older age kids are the mainstay of work in my area, and no performer wants this age group, so all the work comes to me. I have had parents approach me after and tell me that their child didn't want to go to the party because their was going to be a magic show, but how they enjoyed it because of my approach! Why is it only magicians that think everyone in the world loves magic when lots can't stand it, including kids! This is the fault of bad performers.
Randy, Obviously your approach works, and I applaud that. We could do with more like you and your magic friends. |
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randyburtis Inner circle 1256 Posts |
I will expand more on my approach. First, I work a Canadian market, have been performing for nearly 15 years, and half of that, full-time birthdays made up about half of my yearly shows (which meant on average, when I was doing it full-time, around 80-100 shows).
My largest age group was 7-10 year olds. My approach...I never made them the butt of jokes or sucker tricks. When I did a sucker-type trick, which is a type of trick works wonderful for this age group, I would act as puzzled as they were when the sucker aspect came in. Audience involvement was pushed hard. I start with a funny but strong opener, then get them into the show with a loud audience trick (lots of shouting magic words or answering questions), then getting volunteers up to hold and be involved in the next routines. What this did for my audiences was establish respect. Respect for me that I am here to show you some killer magic, not "kiddie magic" (whatever that means), and respecting them by not talking down to them or insulting them, but having fun with them. Then they respect me, they are won over, any barriers are removed, and a fun time is had by all. What I love about this age group is they love to interact, to play off of, what I say and do. Those parties are always the most interactive. I love it. I thrive in that environment, and it makes the show so much better and entertaining. They are old enough that you can do routines that are a bit more involved, add deeper stories, and they are starting to catch on to puns and love corny jokes. I often set up jokes, and they finish them. They feel great, the group laughs more, and I think it is a great age group. If you keep them moving and your show moving, 45 minutes can fly by for all. |
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Regan Inner circle U.S.A. 5726 Posts |
Mr. Trixntracks, please don't get hostile because we disagree on something. Are you insinuating that I am a bad performer because I have a different opinion than you? I did not realize we were talking about 9 year olds and older (I missed the "and older" somehow), so I do apologize for that. As I said in my post above, and I quote myself, "Now, as they get older I can see where that happens, but not at 9." However, I do magic for 9 year olds all the time. This is a great age. If I felt they thought my magic was uncool and stupid, I would move only to adult shows.
I thought we were specifically referring to 9 year olds, and I disagreed with the idea that that age finds magic stupid and uncool. Somewhere along the way, many kids will feel that way as they grow up, but I think that does not usually happen at age 9. As I said, that is my opinion from my experience here in the United States. Others may disagree, and that is why I wanted to know how others felt. Is it that UK kids grow up "faster" than American kids? How is it in Canada? How about other countries? Regan
Mister Mystery
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kimmo Inner circle Sheffield 1193 Posts |
Regan, If you are having success with kids of 9 and up, you are obviously getting it right. Like Tricksntracks, I am the only performer in my area who will work for children over 8 and, therefore, most of my business comes from the older end of the kids market. I know a lot of other local entertainers who are terrified of this age group!
I think the main difference between the U.K. and the U.S. is that, in general, performers in the U.S. are far more in tune with a modern audience. A lot of kids entertainers in the U.K., even some of the younger ones, sound like relics from the 195O's and talk to children in an incredibly patronising way. Times are changing, though!!!
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trixsntracks New user 69 Posts |
Come come, Regan, of course I was not insinuating that you are a bad performer. How can I? We have never met! I am sure you are a fine performer. I was merely trying to point out that a lot of the older kids don't find magic as interesting as we magicians would hope! I have seen performers go into a room full of 10 year olds with their fancy waistcoats and feather flowers, and go down like a lead balloon! Maybe kids in the UK grow up faster, but with everything they have, like PlayStation and Xbox, computers, etc., we as magicians have to raise our game to compete. Like I have said, the older shows are my mainstay, and I love doin' that age group. If I came across as hostile, I apologise. I didn't mean to! Anyone performing to this age range, and making sure the kids love magic, should be applauded and rewarded (as should most kids magicians) to be honest! By the way, adults are worse for thinking magic is uncool, LOL, so I will raise a glass of warm British beer to you, Regan, as a fine performer and colleague.
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kimmo Inner circle Sheffield 1193 Posts |
Before anyone takes my previous comment the wrong way, my reference to "relics from the 1950's" referred to presentation style. It was not an ageist remark!!!! I'm getting on a bit myself now!!!
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trixsntracks New user 69 Posts |
Kimmo, love your Daleck on you website. If you are ever willing to make one to sell, let me know!
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Potty the Pirate Inner circle 4632 Posts |
Some folks have moved onto the content of a show for 9 year-olds. Just so you can put my original question into context, here is the showlist I performed for the group of 9 year olds the other day:
Flame to Silk The Thing Captain Knottybeard's Cleverness Test (aka Super Sleuth) Zig-Zag Can Vanishing Ketchup Healed and Sealed Soda (with can from Zig Zag) The Outhouse (Wolf's Magic) Dark Museum (Doug Higley) Captain Knottybeard's Incredible Seasickness Cure (Passing Water) The Treasure Game (Bill to Lemon) Funhouse Off the Meter They loved the show, content-wise. Because in our area most "magicians", or more specifically "children's entertainers", rarely offer shows for older kids; many 9-year olds in my area do tend to think that magic is "uncool". They think a magician is going to turn up with a bunch of colorful boxes and have a bunch of corny gags. An old guy in a suit, which is pretty worn out, driving a beaten-up old car. The kids of this age who want a magic party tend to be really enthusiastic about magic, but their friends often are not. So you have a birthday kid who loves magic, who will sit and lap up everything you do, and a bunch of friends who think it's uncool and corny, who will begrudgingly come round to accepting that actually they're having a pretty good time. Does this sound familiar to anyone? |
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kimmo Inner circle Sheffield 1193 Posts |
My current show for this age group is:
'Collecting Dust' - a sponge ball routine Daryl's Walking Knot Fire Book/talking spell book vent routine Half Dyed Silk Card trick with a sand frame - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jeAuIHuwOw Axtell Remote Drawing Board - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5yj61-9ehQ Linking Rings Rabbit Production from Duck Bucket Rabbit Vanish Supreme Charlie - my vent puppet - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kg_Rf-Yjk9A Reproduction of Rabbit via Bunnitop Box I would agree that very few U.K. entertainers cater to this age group, but they are a fantastic audience.
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Starrpower Inner circle 4070 Posts |
Kimmo, I think that is a very interesting observation. While I don't see enough British entertainers to agree or disagree, I do notice that they tend to refer to the kids as "Boys and girls" in a rather condescending way. I don't know why -- after all, the ARE "boys and girls" -- but it seems like referring to them that way is talking down to them.
Trixntracks, would you REALLY talk about contraception during a kids' show, or was that a joke for us? And if I take offense to something, can I share in a drink, too? (Although, I like mine chilled!) |
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trixsntracks New user 69 Posts |
Starrpower,
The contraception remark is a old joke just for this topic. And, yes, of course, you can share in a drink, offended or not. Drinks for all my magic colleagues, but it has to be warm 'cause that's how most pubs (bars) serve it. Another interesting point is that my sister works in a nursery (daycare), and staff are not allowed to call the children "kids". They have to call them by name! Bear in mind, the daycare looks after kids as young as 3 months up to 4 year olds, which is when they go to school! It's getting that bad P.C. gone mad! Let me know when you want that drink! |
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Starrpower Inner circle 4070 Posts |
With a room of 20 youngsters, calling them all together could take some time!
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Potty the Pirate Inner circle 4632 Posts |
Once the kids reach 8 years, I start to call them collectively "guys". This Americanism works well, for both girls and boys. When I first worked with Americans, I was taught to refer to them collectively as "folks", and I still use that term over here now. It's less formal than "Ladies and Gentlemen", but not familiar.
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kimmo Inner circle Sheffield 1193 Posts |
I use "folks" and "guys" also.
Back when I was working at Supreme Magic, I noticed that a lot of the routines supplied with the kids effects we sold had not been updated since they were first written; some of them back in the 50's and early 60's. I was often surprised to see performers using these routines WORD FOR WORD, despite the fact they were filled with references to popular culture of the time that none of the modern youthful audience would be familiar with. Perhaps this is why so many U.K. magicians seem to have such a similar style? I used to man a helpline at Supreme and was amazed at how slavishly some people stuck to the published instructions and routines. I remember one guy who said he wanted to return his Bunny Tip Top because he didn't like the name of the rabbit!! When I suggested he tried calling him something else, he replied, "Can I do that?" Maybe I'll start another thread for my funny helpline calls, but I'm sure everyone would think I'm making them up!!
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Starrpower Inner circle 4070 Posts |
Folks? Sounds like Jed Clampett talking to his "kinfolk." Who taught you to use "folks"?
I never thought much about it, but I suppose I also use "guys", as in "What do you guys think?" I also say "everyone", as in "Okay, everyone, let's say the magic words!" But never "folks". |
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Potty the Pirate Inner circle 4632 Posts |
"Folks" is the Universally accepted term for addressing a group of passengers when you work on a cruise ship. It is actually mandatory in some departments!
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mjeayres New user UK 94 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-11-16 12:37, kimmo wrote: Kimmo, I don't necessarily agree with this. It may be true, but having performed a few shows in the USA, it seems to me that the audience for magic of all ages is very different to the UK. In my opinion, the main difference is that the US audience wants to be entertained. What I mean by this is they go into a shows open minded to be entertained. Whereas the British audience, I feel, has an attitude of "OK, what are you going to do to entertain me? And it had better be good." Not only that, but I think they are more appreciative of a good show and are not afraid to show it. It is that stiff upper lip rubbish we have. I think it is more of a positive attitude that the US has, whereas we have a more negative attitude. And I think this is the case on virtually all aspects of life. (I am of course talking in general terms here. There are always exceptions.) But I have always said that if I came up with a business idea of selling hot ice cream, if I pitched it to my UK friends, they would say, "That will never work. What a stupid idea. You will never make money from that, etc..." Whereas my American friends would say, "That could work, what an interesting idea. Go for it, see what happens." Just a thought. Marcus |
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Potty the Pirate Inner circle 4632 Posts |
Marcus,
There is certainly a cultural difference between the UK and the US. Perhaps it would be fair to say that in the US, folks tend to be more encouraging and positive. Whereas in the UK, there is an undercurrent of negativity, disparagement, and jealousy. This is true in many, many fields of employment. It's changing fast, though. Archaic, British attitudes are getting swept aside as communication improves (Magic Café is doing a great job in that respect). On the whole, I've found that other children's entertainers I've met here in the UK have been wonderful and happy to share their knowledge. I worked on cruise ships for many years, and I learned how to work the American way. Take that knowledge back to the UK, and you'll go far. |
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Starrpower Inner circle 4070 Posts |
Doug, having never worked a cruise ship (although, I have worked Mississippi River riverboat casino cruises), I can't comment other than to say that calling a bunch of CHILDREN "folks" is what seemed odd to me.
I'm reminded of an episode of "The Dick Van Dyke Show" where his wife, Laura, doesn't know what to call her in-laws (Mom, Dad, first names, whatever). So for 10 years, she's been calling them "Folks"; she dreads the day when she has to address one of them individually! |
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