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rossmacrae Inner circle Arlington, Virginia 2475 Posts |
Everyone behaved foolishly.
The student should have agreed to obey the rules he knew, when called upon to do so, even though it was inconvenient. The campus cops - enough has already been said. They should have let it go when they saw the student leaving. Continuing was the tipping point - they reacted to a perceived insult when they could have let things settle down instead. The bystander - the incident was documented enough already. |
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Skip Way Inner circle 3771 Posts |
It wasn't inconvenient. I believe it was planned. The punk was a foreign student in the campus library after hours. Campus rules require that students show their student ID after 11:00 PM as a security procedure. The student chose to view this as racial profiling against his nationality and rudely refused, walking past the desk and into the library. The librarian, naturally, called the campus police.
The student took it from there by refusing to comply with the "clearly American racist policy" and the "Patriot Act Gestapo." He also began shouting for other students to join him in resisting and protesting the "profiling...curiously, this first 15-20 minutes of resistence and refusual to comply with the campus police...by MERELY showing his student ID...never made the video. I disagree with racist behavior...whether it's biggoted cops or punks who take advantage of their minority status to "get over." I support protection of college students through common sense procedures...such as displaying student ID's in after hour facilities. As far as I'm concerned, this kid got what he asked for and I hope the courts have the common sene to kick his lawsuit into the gutter where it belongs.
How you leave others feeling after an Experience with you becomes your Trademark.
Magic Youth Raleigh - RaleighMagicClub.org |
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rossmacrae Inner circle Arlington, Virginia 2475 Posts |
I think if you sign up to be a campus cop, you'd better be prepare to keep peace in a population made up largely of young people whose ability to misbehave far outstrips their maturity.
A good deal of the time, this attitude is exactly what they're learning in class from professors who haven't been out of their ivory tower in decades. Right or wrong, you have to expect exactly this sort of thing, whether the kid's "asking for it" or not ... it goes with the territory ... and you're not doing your job unless you allow for that. |
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Skip Way Inner circle 3771 Posts |
As usual, I agree with you Ross. However, how much is enough? The college campus cops I've dealt with in the past were every bit as professional as the best city cops I've known...in some cases, more so, because they're operating within an enclosed, largely self-contained social environment with a wide variety of nationalities, morality and ideals. They're trained to be more tolerant and less aggressive. But, how much should any authority figure be expected to tolerate? Fifteen to twenty minutes of professionally stated requests for identification would be out of the question in most any city environment. Simple resistance and proselytizing is to be expected and dealt with on a campus. Flat out disobedience and rebellion demands further steps. After 15-20 minutes, I would have cuffed, wrapped, gagged and hauled this fool's butt out...and accidentally dropped him several times in the process.
Tolerance has its limits. Skip
How you leave others feeling after an Experience with you becomes your Trademark.
Magic Youth Raleigh - RaleighMagicClub.org |
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Josh Riel Inner circle of hell 1995 Posts |
Didn't watch the show and don't want to. Without actually being there how could you really come to a truly accurate conclusion? Without knowing the history of the situation how could you know all the facts? I can't.
But I would like to post to the posts so far. I don't believe we (Americans) condone or have legalized torture. We may inadvertently allow it. Too may things depend on ones vantage point. Quote:
how much should any authority figure be expected to tolerate? Good question. Here's another one: How far should the "authority" go to keep people healthy? Let's say there was a disease that was incurable, and mostly transferred through questionable behavior. Should we destroy this disease, even though that would mean destroying the people it infected? This would be an effective solution. What if you had the disease? Now, lets say an authority figure felt you had crossed that line of tolerance which was referred to. Is there a limit to his despotism? It's always easy to talk about "accidentally dropping him several times in the process" when it's him and not me. People who behave criminally are criminals, authorities who acts criminally are criminals. America has the court system to attempt to sort out the facts, even though it isn't perfect. However unless the figures who make and enforce the law respect and follow the law and their own duties, how can they expect anyone else to? I work in construction, not the law. But one of the saying you hear often is "Leave your feelings at home". My work is not one of those places you can be overly sensitive, or you'll end up killing someone or running home crying every day. How much more so with the police, or any law enforcement. If you get into law enforcement and believe that there is an excuse for breaking the law "'cause your mad"..... you may be in the wrong job. Of course police are people too, they make mistakes. Should their mistakes cross the line, they should be accountable like anyone else. But what do I know?
Magic is doing improbable things with odd items that, under normal circumstances, would be unnessecary and quite often undesirable.
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MagiClyde Special user Columbus, Ohio 871 Posts |
What really kills me is when I hear a cop on video tape, after having tasered someone, say that they've been tasered before and it's NOT THAT BAD!!! HUH?!? Must be a macho thing.
My personal favorite is the sobriety test that asks you to lift up one leg and count from 1001 to 1030. I can't do that sober!
Magic! The quicker picker-upper!
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Skip Way Inner circle 3771 Posts |
I've been tasered in training. It hurt like hell and knocked the wind out of me...but, I was pretty much back to normal after 10 minutes or so. I've also been maced in training...which stung like a mothah...but, I was functioning again 10-15 minutes later. I've caught police dogs with a reinforced padded suit...and the Shepherds still left deep bruises on my arms and legs. Forget macho...these things are designed to incapacitate and give the cop the upper hand. My mantra was always, "Look, buddy. If someone has to be hurt here, it's gonna be you...period." I intend to go home after my shift.
There's a very simple method for avoiding encounters with the taser, mace, police dogs and the "ludicrous" sobriety tests. Follow the rules, use common sense and obey the instructions of the man or woman behind the badge. If they overstep their bounds, complain through the system. Resisting on the spot to prove a point will only pile on the charges and possibly get you hurt. How hard is this to understand?
How you leave others feeling after an Experience with you becomes your Trademark.
Magic Youth Raleigh - RaleighMagicClub.org |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
It probably helps to remember the badge numbers.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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RandyStewart Inner circle Texas (USA) 1989 Posts |
This simpleton is curious as to how much of the ordeal could of been avoided had the student shown the requested identification.
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Skip Way Inner circle 3771 Posts |
Randy, you're no simpleton. You placed the blame squarely where it belongs. But...as is common in this morally corrupt society, it's ALWAYS someone else's fault. "Personal accountability" is America's longest four letter word.
How you leave others feeling after an Experience with you becomes your Trademark.
Magic Youth Raleigh - RaleighMagicClub.org |
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balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts |
I have not watched the video yet, as I am on a slow connection with no speakers at this moment. But I did search for this news story to see what the background of the incident was. I found many news story links, including these:
www.theregister.co.uk abcnews.go.com So it seems the student was peacefully using a library computer and was slow to leave when he failed to present proper ID. But (according to some witnesses) the student was in the process of peacefully leaving the library when he was accosted and tasered. I have to admit, I have a lot of difficulty seeing how any police or security officer could possibly be justified using a taser in this situation. They should have just let him continue on his way out. In short, it seems to me the situation was mishandled and escalated needlessly from that point on.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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Daegs Inner circle USA 4291 Posts |
Just FYI, finally(a couple days late), slashdot has this up:
yro.slashdot.org From what I understand, he was slowly leaving or standing still, an officer grabbed him so he immediately went limp and laid down. (common passive resistance) Then because he wouldn't stand and leave they taser'd him. Nothing in the video or in any report had him struggling or fighting them or doing anything other than using passive resistance..(granted you might call his body jerking back and forth *while in handcuffs* from being tazed as struggling, but that really doesn't justify more tasering, does it?) |
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RandyStewart Inner circle Texas (USA) 1989 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-11-21 03:15, Daegs wrote: Simpleton wonders why the officer was called to the scene in the first place. |
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Daegs Inner circle USA 4291 Posts |
I think that was also pretty clear.
He was in the library, he refused to show his ID for whatever reason, and since the librarians aren't suppose to evict students (just as store employee's can't stop shoplifters, only the security detail can), they called the police because the student felt he shouldn't have to show ID to use the library. Peacefully refusing to leave a place because you don't agree with their policy on required ID checks does not mean you should get tasered. |
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RandyStewart Inner circle Texas (USA) 1989 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-11-21 03:45, Daegs wrote: You are correct! It means you you need a boot up a special place, and you don't need to be a "student" due to inability to learn anything! Didn't you have to show ID or log in to make your comment? The librarian is doing the job as you should. |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Is it okay to have security in the classroom to remove disruptive students?
Can they use their tasers if they fuss? Hmmm I may want reconsider being a teacher.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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RandyStewart Inner circle Texas (USA) 1989 Posts |
Townsend ticked me off to high hell but then forgot why I had I had to log in.
Apparently still had to show some *** ID ****. So what was I !@#$%in' about? I forgot. |
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balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts |
I don't know if anyone looked at the news links concerning this story that I posted earlier, but one of them mentioned in passing that:
"Manufacturers Promote Tasers at UCLA Four of UCLA's nearly 60 full-time police officers recently won "Taser Awards," given by the manufacturers of the electronic shock device to "law enforcement officers who save a life in the line of duty through extraordinary use of the Taser," according to the Los Angeles Times." Are Tasers common on university and college campuses all across the States these days, or is the UCLA a special case?
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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Skip Way Inner circle 3771 Posts |
Tasers are as common throughout law enforcement as speed monitors and badges. They are an effective, humane and relatively safe method for controlling combative, resistant and violent offenders. Compare this with the choices: Chemical mace, dog bite, 9mm round in center mass, less effective nightsticks and kubatons...or the officer saying "pretty please."
As for the kid trying to "peacefully walk out" as the police arrived: He'd already shown blatant disrespect for the campus policies, the library staff, the campus security officer, the students who willingly displayed their ID's and the campus police. Although he was trying to "leave peacefully" he still refused to show his ID. He continued to refuse to cooperate with the appointed authorities. He physically resisted when the cops lawfully tried to stop him from leaving without obeying a lawful order to identify himself. From the law enforcement perspective, wouldn't it be nice to know who this kid was IF his real purpose for being in the library was to stalk a female student, steal something, deface something, plant an explosive device, etc. All very real and viable reasons for not identifying oneself. Sure, I know...that's reaching...but none of us are gifted with the ability to see the future; instead we institute preventive measures to be able to identify suspects after the fact. After-hours identification is one such measure. Allowing this one kid to successfully buck the system can open the door for more nefarious efforts. Imagine what might have happened had an alert airport security agent said, "Sorry, you can't have this box cutter in your carry-on" and identified the passenger during one of their pre-September trial runs. Chances are 99.9% that if the kid had simply presented his ID to the cops upon request, they would have completed a field interview report and let the kid go on his way. If he had presented the ID to the CSO's upon request, he could have completed his work without any of this happening. The rule of law is only effective as long as it is openly and uniformly enforced. To say, "I'm a minority so I am above the law" is just plain disgusting. The liberal thinking that tags this kid as a "victim" as a result of HIS OWN selfish actions is precisely why so many law abiding citizens are afraid to walk the streets at night and criminals prey on us with impunity.
How you leave others feeling after an Experience with you becomes your Trademark.
Magic Youth Raleigh - RaleighMagicClub.org |
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balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts |
A little more info (but not much more) is available on the UCLA web page:
http://www.ucla.edu/ http://www.ucla.edu/bulletin/powell-incident.html But the UCLA student newspaper has much more current info on-line: http://dailybruin.com/news/home.asp http://dailybruin.com/news/articles.asp?id=39047 The last link above names the officer involved, and talks about his past service history.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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