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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Magical Accessories » » Review of Fitch Kohler Professional Holdout (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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sharpace
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Has anyone already received the Fitch Kohler Professional Holdout? If so, would you mind posting a review of it.

At first I already determined to order one,but after I read the License agreement I found that he needs me to send a copy of my passport.
I feel this involves my personal privacy, so I must think it over again.

I hope now someone has already received this Holdout and posts a review of it. If it is really so good. I will try to solve this PRIVACY problem.

Thanks
jerdunn
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The holdouts haven't been delivered yet. There have been some unavoidable delays.

Bob Kohler tells me that the first batch of holdouts is nearing completion, but the DVDs aren't done yet because of Bob's health problems, from which he is apparently recovering well.

Jerry
Dan Watkins
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Quote:
On 2003-01-03 11:24, sharpace wrote:
I will try to solve this PRIVACY problem.


It says if you are not a US citizen you can send a copy of your passport or your driver's license. This is only so they know who they are dealing with in case you break the confidentiality agreement. They will know who you are and how to track you down.

I think it is good they aren't letting anonymous foreign entities aquire their intellectual property without knowing who they are dealing with. It makes people think twice about doing something stupid with the property once they get it (as if the price tag alone was not enough incentive).
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sharpace
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Hi Dan,

I'm not a US citizen,I'm Japanese. I think he can track the buyer by his credit card information and shipping address.

Here, we can use the passport number for login our cerdit card account,doing money transfer,checking credit infor,changing address and confirmation of transaction etc.
Our banker advice us not to give our credit card number and passport number together to the others.
Dan Watkins
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Do you have a driver's license you can use instead?
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bekralik
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>Do you have a driver's license you can use
>instead?

I agree with Dan. I know different
countries have different rules and
regulations, but a driver's license, much like a passport, is lot more permanent and binding to someone's identity and follows them wherever they go, and governments can also track them. Credit cards can be cancelled and addresses can change.



Brian
Carl Rheuban
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Does anyone have an update on availablity. Has anyone received one yet that can provide a review?

Carl
Dan Watkins
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I don't know the answer to your question on availablility, but this month's MAGIC magazine has Bob Kohler on the cover and a nice article on him which contained some info on the holdout {Not much more info than you can get from Bob's website). But I thought it was interesting reading about the man.
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bekralik
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>Does anyone have an update on availablity.
>Has anyone received one yet that can
>provide a review?

When they arrive, I'm sure there will be an onslaught of reviews and praises. Sorry, nothing new to update yet.


Brian
Rcitgo
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Out of curiosity, how many Café members have actually ordered the highpriced devices? Smile
pennjarr
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'It says if you are not a US citizen you can send a copy of your passport or your driver's license'


'I think it is good they aren't letting anonymous foreign entities aquire their intellectual property without knowing who they are dealing with'

I'm not sure about your comment. Are you implying that a US citizen wouldn't possibly rip Mr Kohler off?

My concern is the precedent that such a limited license sets for magic. On the basis of this, my review would be, however good the effect, it leaves a poor taste in the mouth.
Dan Watkins
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The original post was about non-US citizens. My reply was about non-US citizens. No other implications were made.

Regarding the license, that's already been beaten to death in a previous thread. Just do a search for holdout to find it.

Though I am curious, what specific part of the license leaves a poor taste in your mouth?
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Andy Leviss
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I think the license is a brilliant move; it's about time somebody took some proactive action towards protecting both creators and buyers from the ripoffs that have so soaked through the world of magic, as well as the tendency to just generally be flippant about what the value of new ideas are.

As a creator/manufacturer/publisher myself, I know I'm certainly watching Bob's experiment to see how it plays out and where things like this end up going.

As for the high price, it has two perfectly justifiable reasons. First, this thing's been over ten years in the design. Lots of thought, time, and effort have gone into making it come together, and it's not going to sell tons. That deserves fair compensation. Furthermore, although it's becoming somewhat of a cliche to say this, it's priced to keep it out of the hands of the curious. Sure, the occasional excessively rich Curious George might buy it, but given the high pricetag, the chance of that is greatly reduced. Bob (I presume) wants to make sure it only goes to those who really know that it's what they want/need, who will really appreciate its value, and who will really put in the time and work to do justice to his (and Fitch, and the others involved in the design and manufacturing of the FKPH) time and effort.

Way to go, Bob & Co.
Note: I have PMs turned off; if you want to reach me, please e-mail [email]Andy.MagicCafe@DucksEcho.com[/email]!
Dan LeFay
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I honestly wonder...
Do none of the buyers have a problem with buying something with a $1800 price tag without ever having seen what it is they are buying?
I understand and agree completely with all the arguments being made. Before all, I am a huge fan of Bob's material. I am seriously interested in the Hold out. I have no defense whatsoever against the high price and I am willing to believe it is all worth it...
But I can't convince myself to buy something (with this pricetag) I have never seen.
I did my research on the principles and talked with a very knowledgable magician here in Holland, still, just one picture or demonstration would be necessary to take the next step.

I am very curious how many people (working professionals, not rich curious people) outside of the US will be able to work with this. I am dying to be fooled with it!

After seeing someone demonstrate the much discussed Perfect Hold-out from Antonio Romero, I bought one (I did not expect it to be much before seeing it) as a pre-study to the FK-holdout, I presumed. Well, the thing is the best investment I made the last 6 months.
And I (playfully and respectfully) challenge anyone involved to show me I should invest in the FK holdout.

What a strange and wonderful world of doing business we have...I love it.
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Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths,
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jhostler
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Quote:
On 2003-02-08 01:58, Andy Leviss wrote:
Furthermore, although it's becoming somewhat of a cliche to say this, it's priced to keep it out of the hands of the curious.


Only out of the hands of the non-rich curious! Still, market forces will adequately determine the success/intelligence of this pricing tactic.
Larry Davidson
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Anything you can buy, magic or otherwise, is worth nothing more or less than what you're willing to pay. Is a round 1 carat diamond with D color and VVS1 clarity worth $9500? Is a Rolex two-tone Datejust watch worth $6700? There's no right or wrong answer to these questions since value is subjective. Did a lot of thought and work going into this holdout and can you do unbelievable magic with it? Yes and yes (I'm speaking based on my knowledge of the product, not based on conjecture). It it worth $1800 to YOU to be able to perform the magic this device will allow you to perform? Nobody but you can answer that. But if you're a professional, I'd bet you could book shows worth a lot more than $1800 based on the strength of the effects you could perform with this.
Dan LeFay
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But would you buy the diamond or the rolex without ever having seen a picture of it?

My thoughts are that it is not the price that is the biggest obstacle to a serious professional. You were right about with your statement that there is no wrong nor right concerning this...
It's just that this (serious) professional would like to know what he's buying. And for 1800$ I need more than a description.
"Things need not have happened to be true.
Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths,
that will endure when mere facts are dust and ashes,
and forgot."
Neil Gaiman
Steve Hook
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DL:

Well, a picture of the FKPH ain't gonna happen.

Either you're going to read the lines and in between the lines of Bob's webpage ad copy, which does all but show a picture (and believe me, again, there is not going to be a picture) and figure out for yourself that the design and quality is there, PLUS...

you're going to read in and between the lines of the description to see if the effects are the type you want to perform (producing/vanishing objects, switching objects, etc.) OR...

you're going to decide you don't trust the description and/or don't want to avail yourself of the effects. It's that simple. Because you keep asking for "more than a description" and it ain't gonna happen, brutha.

I've seen the Holdout and seen Bob use it. The device and its ad-mentioned parts are very well-made. Quality is not an issue. Even the carrying/travel case is of the highest quality. The possible effects using the Holdout are almost endless. The ones I saw Bob do were very, very good (clean vanishes of objects and clean restorations).

Along with Bob's own words on the website, the words of others here who saw the demo (like Dan Watkins), and my brief description and positive testament, that's all you get for now. Did I mention there ain't gonna be pictures?

Other than that, all you can do is wait for more word of mouth.

Best wishes,

Steve H

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chrismatt
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Since this is a secret device (as opposed to a prop), Bob is justified in not showing photos of the device itself. However, Bob would do well to put out a video (on his web site, for example) of the device in action.

As for price, as an inventor, I would be willing to refund the purchase price of any of my effects if performed masterly by the purchaser. I would also be willing to pay the purchaser NOT to perform the effect if he cannot do it justice! Sometimes magic tricks are priced (subconsciously) with this attitude in mind. In other words, the greater part (and value) of almost any trick is the performer himself. Kohler should refund part of the purchase price to those who demostrate they have mastered the device. The easy, but not completely satisfactory, alternative is to price it so high that only those who will treasure and (hopefully) master it will buy it. Unfortunately, this marketing approach keeps many fine tricks out of the hands of those who would do them justice.
Details make perfection, but perfection is no detail.
Schaden
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Wow, I would buy this if I could. I want that coin hook up but, I don't like performing coin magic with sleeves. For some reason everyone thinks you have coins in your sleeve. Has anyone seen Bob Fitch's coin magic? Is it all hype or really really good?

Lee
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