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daffydoug Eternal Order Look mom! I've got 14077 Posts |
I'm kind of new here in the gospel magic section, but I'm kind of wondering if anybody can help me with a question if I share a little background.
To start at the beginning, my wife, Diana, died Nov 14'th of this year. It's been almost a month, but it's been a LONG life changing month. I have grieved...I have shed a million tears. I have not had a day yet, when my eyes have not been red and my face wet from crying unashemedly. If you have ever lost a spouse, you will no doubt understand the DEPTH of the pain...the TRAUMA that this brings to you emotionally and in other ways. I'll say it again, a spouses' death is TRAUMATIC. You actually hemmorage on the inside, spiritually speaking. And if you are like me, you seek God's face for ANSWERS to a million questions that you never knew were there before, but suddenly, they are all too REAL. In my soul searching, I came to this realization: I did my magic out of love for my wife. I did it in hopes of making a better financial life for her after all her long years of illness. I did it in hopes of having enough money from performing that I could purchase any expensive herb or supplement that might CURE HER. I failed. I never found a cure for her illness, and she died. The book was slammed shut, and all my years of searching for a cure came to an abrupt end with her passing. It's been a month almost, and for most of that month, I found strangely that I didn't really want to TOUCH another magic effect. After all, what's the use, she's no longer here for me to take care of. Our dreams are gone, and I am alone again after twenty two years.. Well, as things went on, I felt some deep changes start to happen inside me. For one thing, my priorities started to get re-arranged. All of a sudden, eternity became MUCH more important than it ever was before...because eternity is my last chance to either be with my wife again, or to end up in in the "other place". It's a no brainer. I began to see that NOTHING, I mean NOTHING was more important than being right with God, because if I'm not right with him, I will NEVER hold my precious wife again. The time for spiritual sloppiness and apathy is OVER. All of a sudden, the things of this earth lost any luster that they ever had. Men, I don't WANT it anymore.. What is "it"? "It" is applause, fame, fortune, and all the stuff that goes along with it. The thought of those things leaves a bad taste in my mouth. As I said, my priorities have been re-arranged. (By Divine apointment, I can surmise?) Eternity is now in focus for me, and this world and it's treasures has become like looking through the wrong end of a pair of binoculars. I have been DAILY praying, and asking God for answers. I DESPERATELY need answers to a million questions that are raging through my mind right now. Anyway, what does all this have to do with magic? Everything. See, I have always been a proponebtof impromptu, or at least, seemingly IMPROMPTU MAGIC. Let me relate a little anecdote to you: Years and years ago, before my wife was struck by the illness that took her life, I showed her an effect where I asked her to select a card, and sign it. She drew a heart with an arrow on it and signed her name and wrote "I Luv You" on it.. then I made the card vanish. Nothing new here. Well, a few days later, she checked the mail, and inside one of one of electric bill, in a still sealed envelope, was her signed card. She flipped! She kept the card and told everyone she knew about this. But I saved the best for last: one night we went out to a reataurant for dinner. Well.. as we were sitting there, across from one another, I , with a romantic twinkle in my eye, pointed to a spot in the air, (like Babe Ruth!) and with my obviouslty empty hand reached out and plucked a beautiful long stemmed red rose for her from thin air, and gave it to her. She was stunned and just delighted beyond words. In fact she was pretty tickled about this because it was SPECIAL to her. It was REAL magic. (The magic of love) The truth is, YEARS after this happened, she would tell the story at the drop of a hat to anyone who would listen. It was SO SPECIAL to her because that was the day I showed her I love her by magically producing a red rose for her. She took that deep into her heart, and carried it with her all the days of her life, and years later, she NEVER forgot it. Fast forward to a couple days ago. My mom wanted to take me to eat at Long John's, (mom's are concerned that their grieving sons get their proper nourishment, you know!) and after we ate, I noticed that there was a wrapped pepermint on the table. Remember, as I stated, since Diana died, I have had little to no desire to perform any more effects. but I don't know why, but just for the heck of it, I suppose, I picked up the peppermint, placed it in my hand, and said "Mom, watch!" Then I made a squeezing motion, and opened my hand and a nickle fell to the table, the pepermint having transformed into money. Again, I don't really know WHY I did it. Just a whim, I guess. Anyway, mom was astounded! She said "How in the heck did you do that??!" so she called the waiteress over and put me on the spot by saying "My son's a magician! Watch what he can do with a peppermint!" And I of course, complied. The waitress was also visibly astonished at this simple bit of legerdemain, an she called another waiter over and I was compelled to repeat it again. Her reaction was priceless. Mom then said "See! You're really GOOD at that! You ought to get back into it" But I replied, "Mom, I just really don't CARE anymore about the magic." But the truth was, at that moment, that a tiny bit of the fun of magic came back into my heart, if only for a few brief, fleeting moments. But as I mentioned, my priorities have been re-arranged. My new priorities are to please the Lord, do his will, to make it to Heaven with my heart pure before God. My priorities are to make the rapture, miss the tribulation, and to take all my family, my friends, and my enemies along with me, and leave the stinking world behind. I now want to see EVERYONE make Heaven and miss hell. That's all I really care about. Man, I want to see my wife! I want to hug her and be the very closest of friends through eternity. You might say I'm eternally motivated, now. So where does magic fit in with all this? Well, it's pretty simple. In Long John's with my mom, I discoverd that there is still a spark in me for magic, although it's not much of a spark, for sure. I can pretty much take it or leave it. It's no longer a passion, as it once was. If my priorities are new, though, then magic should serve the purpose of helping others find the lord, right? Otherwise, what real good is it? That is my conclusion. As I said, fame, glory, fortune, and all that other worldy stuff and desire has dropped away since Diana's passing, and I want to live for eternal values. So, that is why I'm now here in this gospel magic forum. I need to pick your brains, fellas. Please help me to understand some things. You see, all I have ever seen of gospel magic is simple, goofy, childish little effects. Like: "This is a black handkerchief. it represents sin. This is a red handkerchief..it represents the blood of Jesus..." (and you know the rest) Anyway, surely that's not all there is! I don't think I could ignite too much passion at all for performing silly handkerchief tricks like that. Simple object lessons are fine, but c'mon, what about the good stuff? What about the stuff that I can get excited about performing, like killer street magic? What about the great effects I learned over the years for the likes of Jay Sankey and Gregory Wilson? In other words, what about the possibility of knocking people's socks off with real, cutting edge., killer close-up magic? Can't we do that for the Gospel?? But if SO, how do you turn killer street magic effects into a strong gospel message? Do you HAVE to have an object lesson with each effect, OR is it possible to just do a set of straight killer magic effects, and then at the END of the presentation segue into your gospel message? Or is it possible to just do a set of great magic, and use that as a springboard for just MEETING real people face to face, and then after your magic is done, introducing yourself and sharing your testimony? Do you really have to set each effect to the theme of a spiritual object lesson? I'm asking these questions, because the way I currently understand gospel magic, (My viewpoint is currently limited.) it sounds pretty dull and unchallenging, even childish, and I am at a crossroads here, where I am going to have to decide whether to ever get back into magic again, or just set it aside for the rest of my life. If I can't do it for the Lord, and for the sake of eternity and SOULS, then it is just not going to fit into my new priorities, because I don't want ANYTHING keeping my soul and the souls of others out of heaven. So if you are a gospel magician, I would appreciate you setting me straight. Perhaps you can speak from experience. I'm listening
The difficult must become easy, the easy beautiful and the beautiful magical.
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Payne Inner circle Seattle 4571 Posts |
First off I am sorry for your loss. Nothing anyone can say will ease the pain of your loss but with time it will become easier and the memories of all the good times you had together will get you through the harsh times. Your wife will live on in the memories of those she touched throughout her life.
As for strong gospel routines. No trick or presentation alone is ever going to save a soul. At best you might plant a seed but without continual nurturing it will wither and die. St Francis once said: "Preach the gospel always... - If necessary, use words. Thus, in my humble opinion it is best to lead by example rather than through demonstration.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
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Bendy Special user Columbus, Ohio 518 Posts |
DaffyDoug, I am sorry for your loss; but am happy that you're seeking God and are eternally-minded. So many times when tragedy strikes one's life, they tend to blame God, rather than seek Him.
I've recently accepted and performed at gigs that are primarily children. The Gospel magic aimed at making simpler points can seem a bit 'childish' and I never thought children's Gospel magic would be something I'd enjoy, but I was wrong. I am having a ball doing it. Perhaps one day, you will look at what you understand to be Gospel magic in a different light. With that said, even at shows in churches, I do not attach a biblical theme to every single trick. I firmly believe that no one learns anything if every trick has some greater point. The message gets lost in the chaos. We've gotta do stuff just for the "wow" factor and/or just for fun! I recommend purchasing Duane Laflin's "The Art of Gospel Magic" DVD set. It's three DVDs and they will not only help you to understand Gospel magic, but help you to be successful at it without 'overdoing' it. It's absolutley invaluable information for anyone interested in performing Gospel magic to any audience. Before I got into using magic to teach biblical points to adults and children in a church setting or at church functions; I used magic to break the ice with strangers. I would perform a trick or two strictly to get attention or break the ice; but the tricks wouldn't have any biblical or spiritual message. I'd get their attention with one trick and involve them with the next. I then used unique Gospel tracts, (such as a Million Dollar Bill tract in a bill switch or giving out Optical Illusion tracts), to swing from natural things into spiritual things. It's a unique, unoffensive, friendly means of getting an opportunity to discuss the Gospel with strangers in practically any setting. And if your audience splits before you make your point, they will hold onto the tract and even share it with friends, so the message gets out regardless of how successful you think you were with any encounter. You can find very unique tracts at very reasonable prices at http://www.LivingWaters.com. Many of their tracts, (Million Dollar Bill, Ticket To Heaven, Curved Illusion, Ten Commandment Coins, etc.), you'll find are perfect for use as hand-outs after performing magic or even as an introduction to performing magic. They also have some wonderful resources that can help you in understanding salvation and in sharing the Gospel. I have a few Gospel-specific tricks, but not many. I usually use what I already have. You'll find that as you practice and perform magic while your mind becomes more focused on God and as you become more familiar with the Bible, that spiritual applications to tricks you already perform will pop into your head. Same geat, amazing old effects...but with possible new applications. So not only can you use what you know to create opportunities to talk to others, your creativity will also allow you to use what you already know in effective Gospel applications. There's also a book out that provides spiritual applications to all the tricks in the first volume of Tarbell's Course In Magic. Bottom line: Ease into it. Use magic for fun, for the "wow" factor and as a means to break the ice with strangers and/or open up opportunities to talk to others about God. You don't have to put a spiritual application with every effect and you don't have to limit yourself to off-the-shelf tricks made specifically for Gospel presentations. |
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KingStardog Inner circle 2134 Posts |
Your loss is heartbreaking for me to even read. I believe deep down you have answered your own question from that still small voice. It was a devine appointment to meet with the King, and we will never know or understand the timing or reasons of the creator. Having buried most of my own family I can say that it is a very changing experience if you let it be, though personaly very painful as well. It would be a lie for me to say I could possibly understand the loss of a spouse, and in particular the love you shared.
There is healing in the book. That is the place to go first. Don't listen to what any of the well meaning Christians or Church members tell you. The journey is now yours alone. I recommend you study the four red letter gospels in the fullest. Learn and know every word in them, and let the rest of the book rest until you have mastered those 4. Learn everything about what Jesus had to teach. I read them all a few times before disecting them further. In those red letters are Gods words and teaching for humanity. Only in what came from the King should you be in full trust, but you must know everything as a first priority. People place great value on Paul and the 12, but I tell you the truth,The King was before us and his teachings were recorded in those 4 books, while the rest were mere followers the same as us. If you can find the rock he built his church on, all things right will be known to you. From there will know if you should even be thinking about Gospel magic. Why would one ever give a message if it was from men instead of God? In those four books the message is clear. That IS the message. When you understand the message you are supposed to relate, go forth and preach in whatever manner is needed. If its Gospel Magic, get Duane's book Greater Gospel Magic and do it right. Again I am sorry for your loss.
...think not that all wisdom is in your school. You may have studied other paths,but, it is important to remember that no matter who you are or where you come from, there is always more to learn.
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ClintonMagus Inner circle Southwestern Southeast 3997 Posts |
Doug, I can't imagine what you've been going through, but it sounds like Diana helped you discover the "real" magic that 99.9 percent of magicians never seem to find. The things you did with the card, the rose, and the peppermint are what magic is all about - creating a brief moment of wonder. Most performers would give almost anything to experience that kind of moment, even once. You were so blessed to have Diana in your life, and it sounds like the memories you have of your time together could be a perfect platform to bring some of this magic to others.
Your experience has also shown you the "God-sized hole" that we all have, but that we fill all too often with other things. As for gospel magic, I have always felt like there was a danger to wrapping the message in the magic, and vice-versa. Many gospel magicians try so hard to combine the two that the message and the magic both suffer, and all that is left is an unintelligible mess. Most folks I know would much rather see a quality show of illusion for illusion's sake with a message at the end. There is a seventy-something-year-old man in my town who spends nights and weekends in Wal-Mart, the grocery store, and other places talking to strangers about the Gospel. He told me that he just sees folks who look like they need encouragement, and he tries to provide it. I could see you in a similar role, only using your magic to break the ice. I wish you the best as you try to sort everything out. Please keep us posted. Amos McCormick
Things are more like they are today than they've ever been before...
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richull New user 10 Posts |
I think you have thought about this a lot and have the right ideas. You can use magic as a object lesson or as a ice breaker, what ever you do for and honering to god will come out that way.
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ChrisG Elite user Batavia, Ohio 448 Posts |
Daffydoug
I'm sorry for your loss. To answer your questions short and direct as a Christian Magician, Keep on doing what you do best. What could possibly be wrong with good family entertainment? You don't have to preach, teach or evangelize with every trick or any trick as far as that goes. If you chose to do Christian work of course it's alright to do a program and then give your testimony or share whatever you feel is appropriate. Building relationships is what it is all about not beating people with the Gospel. Opportunity will present itself as you do what God has called you to do. As Christians we should love with actions not words.(Just because "I" fail at this doesn't mean that I will stop trying) There are many good magicians that are Christians first, Magicians second and may or may not do Gospel Magic the choice is up to you. As you see here in the Café there are many opinions about what is right and wrong. That is why we are told to work out our own salvation as it lines up with the "Word of God". I think when the time comes you will know what to say and when to say it. Keep up the magic never let it hebitate. ChrisG
"Consensus is the negation of Leadership"
M. Thatcher |
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ufo Inner circle Phoenix, Arizona 1185 Posts |
Wow. First of all know that our hearts go out to you in your loss. There isn't anything we can say that will make it all "okay".
As to your changing perspective on magic; I think this shift is part of your journey with magic and the role that it plays in your life and the meaning that it brings to your audiences. I don't think its broken....dont fix it...let it bloom and see what never before seen colors and twists develop. Out of our pain, our real art is born. Go with your guy on this one and see where it takes you. Posted: Dec 15, 2006 10:31am I mean...go with your gut...errr, sorry.
"What's your drug?" she asked. "Hope" he said, "The most addicting one of all."
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rossmacrae Inner circle Arlington, Virginia 2475 Posts |
I'm sorry to hear of your loss.
It's far too recent for you to make any decisions regarding the rest of your life based on your feelings of the moment, but it's not too early to gain some new perspectives on yourself, on magic, and on your faith. Putting those new understandings to use in your life really ought to wait until you have had enough time to really emotionally process what has happened so recently. Don't neglect your own needs right now. Take time now and then to talk with your pastor - he/she knows you, and has experience in helping people through exactly what you're going through. Secular grief counseling should also prove to be immensely helpful - and every sentence of your post screams "send this guy to a support group right away." As for your inability to see what "silly handkerchief tricks" are good for in the face of the vast Everything - EVERYTHING - in your life is under the impenetrable cloud of your perfectly natural emotional state. That breakfast cereal, loaded with sugar ... tastes like mud right now, doesn't it? That co-worker complaining at the water cooler about having to work late ... want to slap him silly for not realizing that life is so much bigger than that, don't you? Your usual TV series, the next episode is going to touch just peripherally on the loss of a loved one, and it'll send you into a crying fit. But that won't last forever, it's just something you can't get to the other side of until you go through it, process it, and are finished with it at last. Which WILL happen. THEN it will be time to take what you've learned, and see every aspect of your life, including silly handkerchief tricks, in relation to your new understandings. Like you, I find most Gospel magic I see to be trivial at best, but there are good ideas out there and field is always wide open for better. I have particular trouble pretending to be entertained by a routine with a "message" that seems aimed at a 3-year-old ... I'm 57, Jesus saves, sin is bad, yeah, I got it ... I got it 54 years ago ... I GOT IT, now can we get on with something that will engage a brain cell or two? Okay, SAVED, check, been there done that, different message please. But there's more to the spiritual walk than getting people through the "in" door. The example you gave is ample evidence of that. It looks like you've expressed quite well what you want to do next: Quote:
what about the possibility of knocking people's socks off with real, cutting edge., killer close-up magic? Can't we do that for the Gospel?? But if SO, how do you turn killer street magic effects into a strong gospel message? Do you HAVE to have an object lesson with each effect, OR is it possible to just do a set of straight killer magic effects, and then at the END of the presentation segue into your gospel message? Or is it possible to just do a set of great magic, and use that as a springboard for just MEETING real people face to face, and then after your magic is done, introducing yourself and sharing your testimony? Do you really have to set each effect to the theme of a spiritual object lesson? I think you've answered your own question. How to do it? You're a creative guy, and (if you'll forgive me for putting it this way) you've now got the emotional "fuel" for real creative exploration. Take ample time to gain some stability, take time to let your creativity work (it often works in the background, then one day you wake up with some real insight when the process is done) and you may well be the person to build Gospel magic beyond "let me tell you about Jesus, kiddies" into "here's some food for the next step in your walk with God." |
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daffydoug Eternal Order Look mom! I've got 14077 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-12-14 09:51, KingStardog wrote: Thank-you or that EXCELLENT advice. I believe I will take it to heart and follow through on what you have outlined. Thank-you again. Posted: Dec 18, 2006 5:44pm Quote: On 2006-12-14 10:15, amosmc wrote: Doug, I can't imagine what you've been going through, but it sounds like Diana helped you discover the "real" magic that 99.9 percent of magicians never seem to find. The things you did with the card, the rose, and the peppermint are what magic is all about - creating a brief moment of wonder. Most performers would give almost anything to experience that kind of moment, even once. You were so blessed to have Diana in your life, and it sounds like the memories you have of your time together could be a perfect platform to bring some of this magic to others. Your experience has also shown you the "God-sized hole" that we all have, but that webeen fill all too often with other things. As for gospel magic, I have always felt like there was a danger to wrapping the message in the magic, and vice-versa. Many gospel magicians try so hard to combine the two that the message and the magic both suffer, and all that is left is an unintelligible mess. Most folks I know would much rather see a quality show of illusion for illusion's sake with a message at the end. There is a seventy-something-year-old man in my town who spends nights and weekends in Wal-Mart, the grocery store, and other places talking to strangers about the Gospel. He told me that he just sees folks who look like they need encouragement, and he tries to provide it. I could see you in a similar role, only using your magic to break the ice. I wish you the best as you try to sort everything out. Please keep us posted. Amos McCormick It is so very encouraging to me to receive heart felt advice in this section of the Café. In fact, it is quite a comfort. As I said, I am DAILY seeking the lord's face as to what to do, and how to live. The entire THRUST of my life has now altered. I am HOMESICK. For a place called heaven. Because there my Lord awaits, and there my beloved awaits, I anticipate with arms wide open. I DREAM of her at night (and during the day) and I dream of the fullness of joy we shall experience when we embrace again..in eternity. Love is eternal. I realize the bible says that their is no marriage in heaven, but SURELY there are deep, special and PROFOUND friendships that are based on relationships we built on earth. Well, let me tell you, through all my wife's years of illness and suffering..through all the years of hospitalizations and all that those times that I out of love poured into her of the very fiber of my own being in trying to make her well....through all the times we toughed it out when it would have been easier to just quit and find another mate who was not sick...through all those times, our hearts became entwined...we LOVED one another...and we loved each other deeply for having stood by each other for twenty two years up to her death bed...for all those times, I am sure that even eternity itself will not take away the specialness of the relationship we built with each other. I don't love her less now that she is with the lord..indeed I love her immensely MORE than ever before. I long..no I ACHE to hold her again. And I am CONVINCED that when I see her again, she will be more beautiful than any of God's angels in heaven. All of the sickness and it's effects will be GONE leaving no trace..and the Lord will have her adorned with the sweet scent of Heaven's perfume, a flower gracing her hair, and the glory and radiance of eternal youth. Her hair will be full and shiny again...no more thinning because of medications. The swelling and water retention will be GONE in her new Heavenly body.. Her eyes will be deep and piercing...no trace of sickness and pain in them. And she will be wearing a gorgeous heavenly gown instead of the rags she endured down here. In other words fellas, she will be a knockout! (of the heavenly kind, of course.) THIS DREAM is what keeps me going now. As I said, I am eternally motivated as never before. I despise the things of this world, and everything that would separate me from our re-union is now anathema. It's time to put it all down and live ONLY for Jesus and eternity. Anything else makes me sick to my stomach. Posted: Dec 18, 2006 5:52pm Quote: On 2006-12-15 12:17, rossmacrae wrote: I'm sorry to hear of your loss. It's far too recent for you to make any decisions regarding the rest of your life based on your feelings of the moment, but it's not too early to gain some new perspectives on yourself, on magic, and on your faith. Putting those new understandings to use in your life really ought to wait until you have had enough time to really emotionally process what has happened so recently. Don't neglect your own needs right now. Take time now and then to talk with your pastor - he/she knows you, and has experience in helping people through exactly what you're going through. Secular grief counseling should also prove to be immensely helpful - and every sentence of your post screams "send this guy to a support group right away." As for your inability to see what "silly handkerchief tricks" are good for in the face of the vast Everything - EVERYTHING - in your life is under the impenetrable cloud of your perfectly natural emotional state. That breakfast cereal, loaded with sugar ... tastes like mud right now, doesn't it? That co-worker complaining at the water cooler about having to work late ... want to slap him silly for not realizing that life is so much bigger than that, don't you? Your usual TV series, the next episode is going to touch just peripherally on the loss of a loved one, and it'll send you into a crying fit. But that won't last forever, it's just something you can't get to the other side of until you go through it, process it, and are finished with it at last. Which WILL happen. THEN it will be time to take what you've learned, and see every aspect of your life, including silly handkerchief tricks, in relation to your new understandings. Like you, I find most Gospel magic I see to be trivial at best, but there are good ideas out there and field is always wide open for better. I have particular trouble pretending to be entertained by a routine with a "message" that seems aimed at a 3-year-old ... I'm 57, Jesus saves, sin is bad, yeah, I got it ... I got it 54 years ago ... I GOT IT, now can we get on with something that will engage a brain cell or two? Okay, SAVED, check, been there done that, different message please. But there's more to the spiritual walk than getting people through the "in" door. The example you gave is ample evidence of that. It looks like you've expressed quite well what you want to do next: Quote: what about the possibility of knocking people's socks off with real, cutting edge., killer close-up magic? Can't we do that for the Gospel?? But if SO, how do you turn killer street magic effects into a strong gospel message? Do you HAVE to have an object lesson with each effect, OR is it possible to just do a set of straight killer magic effects, and then at the END of the presentation segue into your gospel message? Or is it possible to just do a set of great magic, and use that as a springboard for just MEETING real people face to face, and then after your magic is done, introducing yourself and sharing your testimony? Do you really have to set each effect to the theme of a spiritual object lesson? I think you've answered your own question. How to do it? You're a creative guy, and (if you'll forgive me for putting it this way) you've now got the emotional "fuel" for real creative exploration. Take ample time to gain some stability, take time to let your creativity work (it often works in the background, then one day you wake up with some real insight when the process is done) and you may well be the person to build Gospel magic beyond "let me tell you about Jesus, kiddies" into "here's some food for the next step in your walk with God." Now THAT'S the kind of advice I'm looking for. You are really understanding where I'm coming from about gospel magic being much more than just a kiddie thing. Lets lick some butt with it! Thanks man! Posted: Dec 18, 2006 8:29pm Oh man! I just re-read my last post! This is TOO embarassing! I meant to type "KICK" some butt! I have spell checker running on IE7, unfortunately, even if you spell a word incorrectly, if it equals another legitimate English word, it will let it slip through, being too dumb to comprehend what you really intended to convey.
The difficult must become easy, the easy beautiful and the beautiful magical.
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ClintonMagus Inner circle Southwestern Southeast 3997 Posts |
Doug, I have to agree... That was one of the more unfortunate typos I have seen in a while, but I think everyone got a chuckle from it. Look at it this way - if that's the worst thing that happens to you all week, you're having a great one.
Hang in there! ;)
Things are more like they are today than they've ever been before...
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daffydoug Eternal Order Look mom! I've got 14077 Posts |
It's definitely not the worst...I can assure you that.
The difficult must become easy, the easy beautiful and the beautiful magical.
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Chessmann Inner circle 4242 Posts |
Doug,
I am an amature magician, and a missionary, sharing the Gospel as a 'vocation'. I have often tried to work magic and the Gospel together, but always felt that the message never really got across as well I tried to combine magic and message at the exact same time. The following is from my own experience. Hope you can glean something from it! If your magic gains an audience, *after* the magic is the time to share - and to share from your heart - your story - just as you shared from your heart in the first post of this thread. Your effect could, as just one example, have patter about losing something. Or losing something wonderful, and through that loss, gaining something wonderful. After the magic you share your from your heart, and then let them know what the Gospel is. Just talking to them! I have always strongly disagreed with the quote from St. Francis (Preach the Gospel. If necessary, use words.) There is nothing wrong with being a godly example to others, of course! However, the scriptures clearly teach that we must *tell* (how will they hear if no one preaches to them?, faith comes by hearing, etc...). Your magic and your story does not save, of course. But God leads them to the *knowledge* of the truth THROUGH the message you provide to folks! Posted: Dec 22, 2006 2:16pm BTW, glad to also note that one of your desires is for "killer, high-quality" effects. The things you desire God to do through you deserve your best efforts!
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
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daffydoug Eternal Order Look mom! I've got 14077 Posts |
Yes, I have always thought that if we are going to do this for the Lord, or "AS UNTO" the Lord we ought to be top notch/the best out there! Why offer God second rate effects, after all.
Posted: Dec 24, 2006 9:51am King Star Dog...I have taken your advice...I am now well into the book of Matthew. I want ONE thing...and that is to hear from God.
The difficult must become easy, the easy beautiful and the beautiful magical.
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KingStardog Inner circle 2134 Posts |
The search for Christian Illumination is a long one, or a short one to the ones who have ears to hear.
Tips for the Gospels: Verily, verily = I decree as an oath,I decree as an oath. God has given his highest in that he has given the oath of truth....twice so you would make no mistake. What purpose would it be to God to swear an oath unto himself? There is no higher truth The rock is assumed to be Peter since his name translates as such. The true rock is that God related the truth about Jesus, to Peter from inside his own heart. This is the rock on which his church is built, not the man named Peter. Understand this and you have one of the priestly sectrets hidden from the church populace. The first of two keys. You must understand the Kingdom of Heavin is INSIDE you. Like a very well known pastor relates: It does not come through the floor or the ceiling or the walls but from within. The presence of God comes from 3 places or Methods. Prayer. Worship. The Word. Praise and worship are two different things. Praise is to thank Him for something given. Worship is to tell Him you love him, even if you are given nothing and all is taken away. God pulls away from you, so that you will seek him. It pleases Him to have you keep seeking when he pulls away. It also pleases him when he knows he is first in your life. I wake every morning early so that I have a couple of hours for study if needed. Usualy it is much less, but I have the time if spirit inspired study is needed. It is before anyone is awake to interupt and when I am able to be alone. I vary the time between study, prayer and worship. Christian books online has DVD segments that are true to scripture Usualy NIV. You should be able to buy at least two of the Gospels and Acts as well as Revelations and some others. I love watching the books unfold to the actual scriptures. I highly recommend the "Toronto training for Ministry" series put out by Benny Hinn. Unlike his revivals and telecasts it is strictly scripure teaching to aid in ministry. Not many folks know that he produces this material. Each city has different content But in your case I recommend Toronto as absolute need to know information once you have the four red letter Gospels down. It consists of 8 audio cds and runs $35 US, and I have to say is probably worth $100 for the information revealed. He walks you through step by step how to experience the presence of God, and warns of every danger and pitfall in ministry. Its advanced material so get the Gospels down first. The presence of God is not a feeling but a disconnection from the self and the flesh, and the entry into Heaven itself which is within you. When people say they feel the Holy Spirit, it is because it is the feeling of disconnection from the flesh and moving into the presence. I have seen an almost uncountable number of miracles with my own eyes in the last decade or so, from prayer and worship. About half are confirmable with doctor or financial or other reports. Some times only one person affected even knows. I follow one guideline always. I do not pray for myself. Only for others, at which point the prayers are almost always answered. I do not accept gifts, because I do not do the work, I take the order and put it on the spindle and the order gets filled from the kitchen. Kind of like a diner. If people persist I impress on them that the highest thing that could be done for me is to return prayer, which I know will release blessings for them as well. Doug, You are doing the right thing because it was whispered into your heart and you know it is right and true. It is not my advice, but from many much greater than myself, that I merely repeat. Now for the Magic. You will find that the harder hitting items are best, always regardless. Andre Kohl has a good format with giving the message when the show is complete so neither confuses the other. I sometimes relate that what I have done is simple illusion that I could teach most anyone that had the aptitude, but there is something much greater...a secret that has been hidden in plain sight for centuries that requires nothing special from anybody except a combination of faith and belief. Only rarely do I witness after a set. Remember. You are being tested always, to see if you will quit. (the seed that falls on stony ground that sprouts and dies)
...think not that all wisdom is in your school. You may have studied other paths,but, it is important to remember that no matter who you are or where you come from, there is always more to learn.
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themagicofjoseph Loyal user 214 Posts |
Very sorry about your loss. Here's my view of how I use magic for the Lord. I've been into magic since I was a kid (now 50), been a paid preformer for 8 yrs now. I'm a born again Christian. I started off doing gospel shows and had great joy in doing it. But a felt a pull to learn magic without a Gospel message just to see what was out there. Now I have been doing table-hopping and other shows...but here's what I do. Before EVERY preformance I pray....Lord, let everyone that comes into the restaurant tonight become saved. Holy Spirit, I pray that you would touch the hearts of the people tonight, be they worker or customers; guide them to the light Lord so they may do great and wonderful things in Your name.
(and importantly) I also pray for thanks for answered pray today according to your will. We may not know why things happen as they do. But God IS good. I work a low wage job during the day and rely on my magic gigs to make ends meet. I see fishes and loafs so much in my life and am so thankful. I believe that God gives us each a gift or two in our lifes. I believe mine is praying for people and preforming what He gave me a passion for at a young age, love of preforming magic. So YES. You can still do your magic. Do it as if you are preforming for HIM as thanks for bringing joy to others before. If you ever need to talk more on this, or want to talk at all. Drop me a line. Magically, Joseph <>< |
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daffydoug Eternal Order Look mom! I've got 14077 Posts |
Thanks. I'll be writing!
Posted: Dec 30, 2006 12:27am I'm making pretty good progress..I'm about twenty chapters into Matthew, and my plan is to read through the each of the four gospels seven complete times, peruseing them for every detail I can absorb, and then to go through the rest of the new testament the same way. Hopefully, by the time I am done with all that, I should be pretty well versed in what the word says, and no on should be able to pull the "wool over my eyes".
The difficult must become easy, the easy beautiful and the beautiful magical.
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KingStardog Inner circle 2134 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-12-30 00:27, daffydoug wrote: Hi Doug, Seven times is a good goal but guard yourself that you don't take in too much, too quick and end up burned out or overly saturated to the point you lose interest. leave time to digest and reference different points. Unfortunatly there are many wolves in sheeps clothing using the teachings for personal gain. Might be over half, so choose your pastor with great care. A good pastor will radiate the Holy Spirit to everyone in his presence. A poor one will break your spirit under condemnation, which is no mans job. If you don't feel better than when you came after one service, get away from them. You should actualy have a lift of spirit very shortly in the service if the church is right with God. Never fill out a communication card unless you have decided on where you will attend and fellowship. Shop carefully, for a church, and take six months or a year if needed. Its your immortal soul. The most valuable thing you will ever have, for all of time, so just say No if the church isn't right and then mean it. The wolves are experts at manipulation, so don't fall for it. Pray about the decision before making it. It is for the Holy Spirit within you to guide and correct. As you draw closer you will find less and less of the world is acceptable. (hence the prayer that is done by withdrawl into the prayer closet) The Spirit hates the world and is fellowshipped easisest outside of the presence of the world. Holy men throughout history have built small chaples for personal worship. Some families clear a whole room in their homes from everything, connected to the world, and keep it clear from outside influences as a place of prayer. Jesus removed himself from the world by entering into the wilderness to pray. There are also several conflicts with what Jesus taught and what the 12 and later deciples taught. In every case, the Master's teachings ARE perfect and should override those 'later on teachings' in other chapters. I just returned from veiwing the Dead Sea scrolls and the work I have seen there, along with several in depth and extensive texts I had studied previously, leads me to believe that the old testement is fairly much in tact. There are some books removed from the current Bible like the Macabees and Esther was obviously not a part of the originals,(original dead sea scrolls) but the translations of those oldest books known to man are very close to the word for word translations we have now. Feel free to write and ask anything as well. Usualy if I don't know the answer I will know where to find it very easily. Whatever I can do to help out is fine. Incidently I did end up giving an in depth study for my two remaining sisters on Christmas day for about 3 hours, which was nice and I was pleased they both were interested and that I wore out before they did. Never got to do any of they magic effects I was ready for though.
...think not that all wisdom is in your school. You may have studied other paths,but, it is important to remember that no matter who you are or where you come from, there is always more to learn.
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daffydoug Eternal Order Look mom! I've got 14077 Posts |
Your words hit home...especially the words "immortal soul." I have and watched several testimonies of NDE'S lately concerning that very thing. (Go to http://www.insightsofgod.com) and I am absolutely CONVINCED that there is NOTHING, and I mean NOTHING in this world more important than the salvation of that very soul. I now strive every day...every moment of every day to be sure my soul is right with God.
The difficult must become easy, the easy beautiful and the beautiful magical.
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Suppo Regular user Indianapolis 101 Posts |
Being a Christian is a marathon. Everyday you try to do right, every day you fall short. We are all prodigal sons and daughters having turned away at least but usually a lot more than once. Everday we rediscover we are sinners and fall short of his glory.
As much love as we have for our kids and know that no matter what they do, that love will never lessen, our heavenly father makes that small in comparison, he is love. When we do fall away and return, he just wants us to know he understands and has always been there for us. Pray without ceasing, talk to him but also be quiet and still and listen. Havent said it yet, sorry for your loss. It is nice there is a great positive unfolding from it. Also, congrats on the veil being removed. |
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